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It is better, but I am still disappointed. What the author did was clever and interesting, and the reaction of this highest-ranked thread has been to steal the

by scythe 15y ago

It is better, but I am still disappointed. What the author did was clever and interesting, and the reaction of this highest-ranked thread has been to steal the discussion from, say, the general application of a female hacker's idea and instead to focus on the psychological contusions of a group of guys we don't know, scarcely care about, and will probably never meet. And yet we are not even talking about how to convince them not to react like this: we have all established that their reaction is problematic, would someone mind suggesting a way to change it? At least the problem is no longer sexism but laziness: changing people is hard, complaining about them is easy. Back to work! Jeez.

unalone 15y ago
Good point. I was aiming, with my comment, to pre-empt a lot of the responses which usually show up in a discussion like this. I don't think what I said was a derail: The biggest obstacle in these discussions is simply that people don't realize this is a problem. Nobody wants to be sexist, and nobody responds well to suggestions that their behaviors were unintentionally sexist, especially if they don't immediately see the connection to sexism themselves. What we need is transparency and awareness. The more people realize that their actions might have unintentional and unpleasant consequences, the better they'll be at checking their behavior and making adjustments. It was an incredible series of community discussions on MetaFilter that made me reconsider my own behavior – just two years ago, I'd be the one arguing that this sort of reaction was unnecessary – so I know firsthand how useful simply talking about these issues can be. Those threads, by the way, are http://metatalk.metafilter.com/15281/Discussion-Point http://metatalk.metafilter.com/15281/Discussion-Point and http://www.metafilter.com/85667/Hi-Whatcha-reading http://www.metafilter.com/85667/Hi-Whatcha-reading, and each branches out into a thread or two more. They're very long – I spent a good week reading them – but they're fascinating conversations that took place in a community quite similar to this one, in which every possible argument is brought up and some incredibly eloquent comments are made by women who are affected personally by issues like this. (The first thread takes a little while to steer towards that conversation, but that was the one which enthralled me.)
- xycombinator 15y ago
  >Nobody wants to be sexist, and nobody responds well to suggestions that their behaviors were unintentionally sexist Maybe some of Jay Smooth's TED Talk on racism (http://tedxtalks.ted.com/video/TEDxHampshireCollege-Jay-Smooth)could http://tedxtalks.ted.com/video/TEDxHampshireCollege-Jay-Smoo... apply to sexism.

by scythe 15y ago

unalone 15y ago

Good point. I was aiming, with my comment, to pre-empt a lot of the responses which usually show up in a discussion like this. I don't think what I said was a derail: The biggest obstacle in these discussions is simply that people don't realize this is a problem. Nobody wants to be sexist, and nobody responds well to suggestions that their behaviors were unintentionally sexist, especially if they don't immediately see the connection to sexism themselves. What we need is transparency and awareness. The more people realize that their actions might have unintentional and unpleasant consequences, the better they'll be at checking their behavior and making adjustments. It was an incredible series of community discussions on MetaFilter that made me reconsider my own behavior – just two years ago, I'd be the one arguing that this sort of reaction was unnecessary – so I know firsthand how useful simply talking about these issues can be. Those threads, by the way, are http://metatalk.metafilter.com/15281/Discussion-Point http://metatalk.metafilter.com/15281/Discussion-Point and http://www.metafilter.com/85667/Hi-Whatcha-reading http://www.metafilter.com/85667/Hi-Whatcha-reading, and each branches out into a thread or two more. They're very long – I spent a good week reading them – but they're fascinating conversations that took place in a community quite similar to this one, in which every possible argument is brought up and some incredibly eloquent comments are made by women who are affected personally by issues like this. (The first thread takes a little while to steer towards that conversation, but that was the one which enthralled me.)

xycombinator 15y ago
>Nobody wants to be sexist, and nobody responds well to suggestions that their behaviors were unintentionally sexist Maybe some of Jay Smooth's TED Talk on racism (http://tedxtalks.ted.com/video/TEDxHampshireCollege-Jay-Smooth)could http://tedxtalks.ted.com/video/TEDxHampshireCollege-Jay-Smoo... apply to sexism.