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Correct. My point is that people only casually familiar don't realize how vertically integrated the FBA model is. FBA is like eBay, PayPal, FedEx, Google Ads

Correct. My point is that people only casually familiar don't realize how vertically integrated the FBA model is. FBA is like eBay, PayPal, FedEx, Google Ads and a warehouse all wrapped into one. But they charge you varying types of fees based on different measures, at different times, for each of those parts of the stack. And you cannot cross shop, mixing and matching other vendors in to keep them honest on pricing. It's easy to use, but you are locked in to their stack.

ToucanLoucan 3y ago
Why shouldn't they? You've arranged to have product you didn't create shipped to a warehouse you don't operate to be stored by a system you don't maintain to be sold on a storefront under a brand you made up and that you didn't create to be fulfilled by a shipping apparatus instead of you going to the UPS Store. What exactly are YOU doing here that merits a payday? Mediating a relationship between Amazon and a Chinese manufacturing firm? They already have tons of those. The entitlement these entrepreneur types exhibit is the economic equivalent of wind-drag. If buying stuff from random AliExpress sellers and charging 300% markup to sell it to people who don't know better on Amazon isn't working out for you, maybe you should find a way to contribute to the economy instead of just inserting yourself between existing profitable businesses and demanding money for sending some emails.
- svpk 3y ago
  If it's legal they should do it because it's evidently profitable. If it's not legal then they shouldn't do it because it's illegal. Which is really the question at hand. You're criticism seems to be grounded in a distaste for the kind of business being done (and I think it's quite fair to be critical of the business model based on cheap Chinese labor). But that's not really relevant to the question of did Amazon utilize anti-competitive behavior that violates the laws that govern how businesses are allowed to behave.
  - ToucanLoucan 3y ago
    > If it's legal they should do it because it's evidently profitable. Is it? The moaning from higher in the comment tree seems to disagree with that assertion. Maybe it was once profitable, but it seems as Amazon's reputation for hosting tons of cheap resold goods gets worse, it's becoming significantly less so. I personally have known for years that it's possible to oftentimes find the gadgets sold for $15-20 on Amazon on AliExpress for a few bucks. This isn't exactly arcane information anymore. > You're criticism seems to be grounded in a distaste for the kind of business being done (and I think it's quite fair to be critical of the business model based on cheap Chinese labor). My criticism is that the same people who cry from the rooftops about how free commerce is essential and how they have a right to sell marked up goods under any name they like to people who can't trace their supply chain have zero basis to complain when consumers get wise to their shenanigains and go elsewhere. It's literally this kind of "business owner"'s fault that Amazon is becoming near unusable now. I'm not shocked one bit that Amazon is cracking the whip; their reputation is on the line and has been trending steadily down for years. "Buyer beware" they chant. Until the buyers start bewaring, and then they start whining about unfair competition and high fees for their store that is entirely operated by a third party and literally cannot exist without it. Amazon is no angel here either of course. They have monopolized the absolute shit out of online retail, one of the ways they did was offering reseller services and getting businesses on their platform in the first place. Neither "side" of this is right, per se. Both of them would send me as a customer up the proverbial river to make a single dollar. As far as I'm concerned, them fighting in court is strictly entertainment, apart from whatever precedents get set that might affect other businesses I actually give a shit about down the line. But like, the businesses I give a shit about are like, local ones. Ones run by people, to serve people. Not ones pulling tag clouds from trending social media topics or buying ad space on instagram to sell an egg beater shaped like a cat for $35 that they got from a Chinese manufacturer for $5.50/10,000 and dropshipped to people. This is just that, with an extra step. And the entity that's the extra step is realizing how raw of a deal it is, and they want a heftier cut to put up with these middle men. And on that particular point I don't blame them one bit.
- 22289d 3y ago
  > What exactly are YOU doing here that merits a payday? The hard part. Finding a product people want. If that were so easy, Amazon would just be a store, no sellers. That part they can't do themselves.
  - ToucanLoucan 3y ago
    Oh yes, Amazon Inc., famously they have a hard time finding out what customers want. Come on.
    - 22289d 3y ago
      That part they can't do themselves at the same scale as all of the sellers can. That is what I meant.
  - danielmarkbruce 3y ago
    If you can do the hard part, then do all the easy parts and leave amazon out of the equation.
    - 22289d 3y ago
      It's always a signal that you're on to something when you get a bunch of pedantic rebuttals like this. Attacking the central argument isn't possible, so they nitpick.
      - ToucanLoucan 3y ago
        You literally just said that they did the hard part, which is apparently identifying a product that consumers want and cannot buy. The commenter then says: why don't they just do all the apparently easy shit, which is making it, holding the inventory, shipping it, and handling returns/customer service. Maybe your point just sucks because finding some cheap garbage on AliExpress that you can sell with instagram ads isn't actually all that hard, or that much work, which is probably why this exact business model was sold to people who, as stated by people selling it, had low skills and no interest in acquiring them, so they can generate passive income by operating an automated storefront on Amazon.

ToucanLoucan 3y ago

Why shouldn't they? You've arranged to have product you didn't create shipped to a warehouse you don't operate to be stored by a system you don't maintain to be sold on a storefront under a brand you made up and that you didn't create to be fulfilled by a shipping apparatus instead of you going to the UPS Store. What exactly are YOU doing here that merits a payday? Mediating a relationship between Amazon and a Chinese manufacturing firm? They already have tons of those. The entitlement these entrepreneur types exhibit is the economic equivalent of wind-drag. If buying stuff from random AliExpress sellers and charging 300% markup to sell it to people who don't know better on Amazon isn't working out for you, maybe you should find a way to contribute to the economy instead of just inserting yourself between existing profitable businesses and demanding money for sending some emails.

svpk 3y ago
If it's legal they should do it because it's evidently profitable. If it's not legal then they shouldn't do it because it's illegal. Which is really the question at hand. You're criticism seems to be grounded in a distaste for the kind of business being done (and I think it's quite fair to be critical of the business model based on cheap Chinese labor). But that's not really relevant to the question of did Amazon utilize anti-competitive behavior that violates the laws that govern how businesses are allowed to behave.
- ToucanLoucan 3y ago
  > If it's legal they should do it because it's evidently profitable. Is it? The moaning from higher in the comment tree seems to disagree with that assertion. Maybe it was once profitable, but it seems as Amazon's reputation for hosting tons of cheap resold goods gets worse, it's becoming significantly less so. I personally have known for years that it's possible to oftentimes find the gadgets sold for $15-20 on Amazon on AliExpress for a few bucks. This isn't exactly arcane information anymore. > You're criticism seems to be grounded in a distaste for the kind of business being done (and I think it's quite fair to be critical of the business model based on cheap Chinese labor). My criticism is that the same people who cry from the rooftops about how free commerce is essential and how they have a right to sell marked up goods under any name they like to people who can't trace their supply chain have zero basis to complain when consumers get wise to their shenanigains and go elsewhere. It's literally this kind of "business owner"'s fault that Amazon is becoming near unusable now. I'm not shocked one bit that Amazon is cracking the whip; their reputation is on the line and has been trending steadily down for years. "Buyer beware" they chant. Until the buyers start bewaring, and then they start whining about unfair competition and high fees for their store that is entirely operated by a third party and literally cannot exist without it. Amazon is no angel here either of course. They have monopolized the absolute shit out of online retail, one of the ways they did was offering reseller services and getting businesses on their platform in the first place. Neither "side" of this is right, per se. Both of them would send me as a customer up the proverbial river to make a single dollar. As far as I'm concerned, them fighting in court is strictly entertainment, apart from whatever precedents get set that might affect other businesses I actually give a shit about down the line. But like, the businesses I give a shit about are like, local ones. Ones run by people, to serve people. Not ones pulling tag clouds from trending social media topics or buying ad space on instagram to sell an egg beater shaped like a cat for $35 that they got from a Chinese manufacturer for $5.50/10,000 and dropshipped to people. This is just that, with an extra step. And the entity that's the extra step is realizing how raw of a deal it is, and they want a heftier cut to put up with these middle men. And on that particular point I don't blame them one bit.
22289d 3y ago
> What exactly are YOU doing here that merits a payday? The hard part. Finding a product people want. If that were so easy, Amazon would just be a store, no sellers. That part they can't do themselves.
- ToucanLoucan 3y ago
  Oh yes, Amazon Inc., famously they have a hard time finding out what customers want. Come on.
  - 22289d 3y ago
    That part they can't do themselves at the same scale as all of the sellers can. That is what I meant.
- danielmarkbruce 3y ago
  If you can do the hard part, then do all the easy parts and leave amazon out of the equation.
  - 22289d 3y ago
    It's always a signal that you're on to something when you get a bunch of pedantic rebuttals like this. Attacking the central argument isn't possible, so they nitpick.
    - ToucanLoucan 3y ago
      You literally just said that they did the hard part, which is apparently identifying a product that consumers want and cannot buy. The commenter then says: why don't they just do all the apparently easy shit, which is making it, holding the inventory, shipping it, and handling returns/customer service. Maybe your point just sucks because finding some cheap garbage on AliExpress that you can sell with instagram ads isn't actually all that hard, or that much work, which is probably why this exact business model was sold to people who, as stated by people selling it, had low skills and no interest in acquiring them, so they can generate passive income by operating an automated storefront on Amazon.