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Dear Sir, We noticed you have made some potentially inflammatory comments directed towards women. We have started to monitor your account and will shut it down

Dear Sir, We noticed you have made some potentially inflammatory comments directed towards women. We have started to monitor your account and will shut it down if you continue to use this type of language. Please read the following guidelines that explain how to correctly discuss and think about these issues: "What things are most useful for men to keep in mind when discussing theories or topics relating to gender?" http://www.quora.com/What-things-are-most-useful-for-men-to-keep-in-mind-when-discussing-theories-or-topics-relating-to-gender http://www.quora.com/What-things-are-most-useful-for-men-to-... "Derailing for Dummies": http://derailingfordummies.com/ http://derailingfordummies.com/ We hope we will not have to contact you again about further violations. Thank you.

wpietri 15y ago
Yes! Also, what's up with Miss Manners suggesting other ways for people to be polite? Why is she keeping me down with her "chew with your mouth closed" and "use the toilet paper, not the hand towels" bullshit! No one can police me! The constitution say so! I DO WHAT I WANT! Or, and I'm just thinking out loud here, we could recognize that, especially in professional contexts, we actually want to behave towards our colleagues in ways that are polite and respectful. And maybe we could also recognize that our society has finally been reducing institutional sexism over the last century or so, and that there's still some work left to do.
- tomjen3 15y ago
  There is a difference -- you can ignore miss manners if you want (at your peril) in this case you have the room equivalent of a screaming maniac yell at you (politely) each time you do something wrong. And yes if you had that in real life, it would be considered rude.
  - wpietri 15y ago
    Not quite getting your point. As you acknowledge, there's peril in being impolite. It's the peril of getting called out or shunned. The only thing that's different now from 30 years ago is that things have shifted enough that saying something sexist is rude. Also, we may disagree on what's rude. If I throw a party and somebody is sufficiently offensive, I'll show them the door. If they see that as rude, then it's only for the same reason they were acting offensively: they were too clueless to understand the harm they were causing. I agree that some people take it too far and are rude in return. But given that they were provoked, I'm more inclined to forgive that. And given that those links are perfectly useful guides to discussing these topics, I don't think bringing them up is rude.
    - tomjen3 15y ago
      My point is this: It was the company culture to have fun with a joke aimed at nobody in particular (sex is not sexistic). A bad, unfunny joke but a joke nontheless. One person decieded she did like it and ruined it for everybody. If you show up to a frat house party and don't like it, do you demand that the others change their behavior to something that isn't rude or do you leave? She essentially demanded that everybody else acted a new way just to please her and when she was refused forced them to.
      - schmichael 15y ago
        Did you just compare a workplace to a frat house party? Unreal...
        sp332 15y ago
        Its an analogy, not a comparison. Different workplaces have different cultures and different standards of behavior. Startups in particular are known for having unique work environments, and how well you fit into the culture of any business is an important part of determining if you should be hired there. e.g. http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2010/09/how-to-get-a-job-at-google-interview-questions-hiring-process.html http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2010/09/how-t...
        wpietri 15y ago
        How is an analogy not a comparison? E.g.: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/analogy http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/analogy http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/analogy http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/analogy Also, startups may have unique cultural requirements, but putting up with a hostile work environment is not one of them. Not under US law, anyhow.
        sp332 15y ago
        I meant definition 5, which apparently is not as popular as I thought. e.g. Peanuts are to elephants as bananas are to monkeys. Peanuts are not being compared to bananas, and elephants are not being compared to monkeys. The workplace was not being compared to a frat house. What's being compared is the decision a person would make about those environments: if you don't like it, don't join.
  - rayiner 15y ago
    You can ignore miss manners, but you cannot ignore the guy in the room constantly making sexist jokes. If that guy finds an opposite response of equal magnitude annoying, well that's some shoe on the other foot shit right there.
  - geekchick77 15y ago
    "bot quoting a notable woman" == "the room equivalent of a screaming maniac yell at you (politely)" That's quite the assertion you are making.
- cantastoria 15y ago
  Dear Sir, We noticed you have made some potentially inflammatory comments directed towards women. We have identified this text as being in violation of our code of conduct: Yes! Also, what's up with Miss Manners suggesting other ways for people to be polite? Why is she keeping me down with her "chew with your mouth closed" and "use the toilet paper, not the hand towels" bullshit! No one can police me! The constitution say so! I DO WHAT I WANT! We have started to monitor your account and will shut it down if you continue to use this type of language. Please read the following guidelines that explain how to correctly discuss and think about these issues: "What things are most useful for men to keep in mind when discussing theories or topics relating to gender?" http://www.quora.com/What-things-are-most-useful-for-men-to-.. http://www.quora.com/What-things-are-most-useful-for-men-to-.... "Derailing for Dummies": http://derailingfordummies.com/ http://derailingfordummies.com/ We hope we will not have to contact you again about further violations. Thank you.

wpietri 15y ago

Yes! Also, what's up with Miss Manners suggesting other ways for people to be polite? Why is she keeping me down with her "chew with your mouth closed" and "use the toilet paper, not the hand towels" bullshit! No one can police me! The constitution say so! I DO WHAT I WANT! Or, and I'm just thinking out loud here, we could recognize that, especially in professional contexts, we actually want to behave towards our colleagues in ways that are polite and respectful. And maybe we could also recognize that our society has finally been reducing institutional sexism over the last century or so, and that there's still some work left to do.

tomjen3 15y ago
There is a difference -- you can ignore miss manners if you want (at your peril) in this case you have the room equivalent of a screaming maniac yell at you (politely) each time you do something wrong. And yes if you had that in real life, it would be considered rude.
- wpietri 15y ago
  Not quite getting your point. As you acknowledge, there's peril in being impolite. It's the peril of getting called out or shunned. The only thing that's different now from 30 years ago is that things have shifted enough that saying something sexist is rude. Also, we may disagree on what's rude. If I throw a party and somebody is sufficiently offensive, I'll show them the door. If they see that as rude, then it's only for the same reason they were acting offensively: they were too clueless to understand the harm they were causing. I agree that some people take it too far and are rude in return. But given that they were provoked, I'm more inclined to forgive that. And given that those links are perfectly useful guides to discussing these topics, I don't think bringing them up is rude.
  - tomjen3 15y ago
    My point is this: It was the company culture to have fun with a joke aimed at nobody in particular (sex is not sexistic). A bad, unfunny joke but a joke nontheless. One person decieded she did like it and ruined it for everybody. If you show up to a frat house party and don't like it, do you demand that the others change their behavior to something that isn't rude or do you leave? She essentially demanded that everybody else acted a new way just to please her and when she was refused forced them to.
    - schmichael 15y ago
      Did you just compare a workplace to a frat house party? Unreal...
      - sp332 15y ago
        Its an analogy, not a comparison. Different workplaces have different cultures and different standards of behavior. Startups in particular are known for having unique work environments, and how well you fit into the culture of any business is an important part of determining if you should be hired there. e.g. http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2010/09/how-to-get-a-job-at-google-interview-questions-hiring-process.html http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2010/09/how-t...
        wpietri 15y ago
        How is an analogy not a comparison? E.g.: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/analogy http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/analogy http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/analogy http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/analogy Also, startups may have unique cultural requirements, but putting up with a hostile work environment is not one of them. Not under US law, anyhow.
        sp332 15y ago
        I meant definition 5, which apparently is not as popular as I thought. e.g. Peanuts are to elephants as bananas are to monkeys. Peanuts are not being compared to bananas, and elephants are not being compared to monkeys. The workplace was not being compared to a frat house. What's being compared is the decision a person would make about those environments: if you don't like it, don't join.
- rayiner 15y ago
  You can ignore miss manners, but you cannot ignore the guy in the room constantly making sexist jokes. If that guy finds an opposite response of equal magnitude annoying, well that's some shoe on the other foot shit right there.
- geekchick77 15y ago
  "bot quoting a notable woman" == "the room equivalent of a screaming maniac yell at you (politely)" That's quite the assertion you are making.
cantastoria 15y ago
Dear Sir, We noticed you have made some potentially inflammatory comments directed towards women. We have identified this text as being in violation of our code of conduct: Yes! Also, what's up with Miss Manners suggesting other ways for people to be polite? Why is she keeping me down with her "chew with your mouth closed" and "use the toilet paper, not the hand towels" bullshit! No one can police me! The constitution say so! I DO WHAT I WANT! We have started to monitor your account and will shut it down if you continue to use this type of language. Please read the following guidelines that explain how to correctly discuss and think about these issues: "What things are most useful for men to keep in mind when discussing theories or topics relating to gender?" http://www.quora.com/What-things-are-most-useful-for-men-to-.. http://www.quora.com/What-things-are-most-useful-for-men-to-.... "Derailing for Dummies": http://derailingfordummies.com/ http://derailingfordummies.com/ We hope we will not have to contact you again about further violations. Thank you.