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> There is no way those non-physical thoughts are changing the physical processes; they happen after the fact. How can the truth of this statement be proven? N

by ad987 3y ago

> There is no way those non-physical thoughts are changing the physical processes; they happen after the fact. How can the truth of this statement be proven? Non-physical thoughts cannot be observed, so they are out of reach of being tested for being correct.

anon84873628 3y ago
Eventually we may have sufficiently fine-grained ability to observe brain states, plus a strong enough understanding of neuropsychology, such that an outside observer can accurately predict, for a brain under observation: 1. The subjective internal mental state of the participant (e.g. "you were imagining a red balloon") 2. Actions that will be taken before they physically manifest (e.g. "you will throw rock instead of scissors") If an outside observer can do these things without access to subjects' thoughts, especially with subjects' deliberate efforts to fool the observers, then IMO it is pretty clear evidence the thoughts are meaningless. As for the current day, I say the preponderance of evidence is on anyone who claims otherwise. There's lots of evidence suggesting free will is an illusion, and no evidence of telekinesis or the like.
- pixl97 3y ago
  Not even eventually, currently we have AI that can decode 'pictures' from our brain activity. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/this-ai-used-brain-scans-to-recreate-images-people-saw-180981768/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/this-ai-used-brain...
Viliam1234 3y ago
> Non-physical thoughts cannot be observed We wouldn't even be able to talk about them, because if we did, there would be a causal chain starting with a non-psysical thought and ending with moving a (physical) tongue. So somewhere along that chain, a non-physical thing would need to make a physical thing move. How exactly?
- anon84873628 3y ago
  Neural activity physically exists. Qualia -- the experience of having thoughts -- do not.

by ad987 3y ago

anon84873628 3y ago

Eventually we may have sufficiently fine-grained ability to observe brain states, plus a strong enough understanding of neuropsychology, such that an outside observer can accurately predict, for a brain under observation: 1. The subjective internal mental state of the participant (e.g. "you were imagining a red balloon") 2. Actions that will be taken before they physically manifest (e.g. "you will throw rock instead of scissors") If an outside observer can do these things without access to subjects' thoughts, especially with subjects' deliberate efforts to fool the observers, then IMO it is pretty clear evidence the thoughts are meaningless. As for the current day, I say the preponderance of evidence is on anyone who claims otherwise. There's lots of evidence suggesting free will is an illusion, and no evidence of telekinesis or the like.

pixl97 3y ago
Not even eventually, currently we have AI that can decode 'pictures' from our brain activity. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/this-ai-used-brain-scans-to-recreate-images-people-saw-180981768/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/this-ai-used-brain...

Viliam1234 3y ago

> Non-physical thoughts cannot be observed We wouldn't even be able to talk about them, because if we did, there would be a causal chain starting with a non-psysical thought and ending with moving a (physical) tongue. So somewhere along that chain, a non-physical thing would need to make a physical thing move. How exactly?

anon84873628 3y ago
Neural activity physically exists. Qualia -- the experience of having thoughts -- do not.