5 ms·

What is the user base of Firefox now? Single digits, last I hear. Chrome just keeps growing. Once iOS no longer uses WebKit as it’s base, the Chrome Blink will

What is the user base of Firefox now? Single digits, last I hear. Chrome just keeps growing. Once iOS no longer uses WebKit as it’s base, the Chrome Blink will dominate.

nickthegreek 3y ago
So what? That does not affect those of us using Firefox.
- astrange 3y ago
  You don't know how many websites you're using do totally different things under an if (Chrome) though, or will in the future.
  - mattnewton 3y ago
    I think I maybe get the broader argument you are trying to make, but in the context of gp’s comment, forcing web devs to test in and fix bugs in mobile safari because of its forced 100% iOS market share isn’t making people test in Firefox. And it currently not possible to run actual Firefox on your iphone, just a branded WebKit wrapper.
  - nickthegreek 3y ago
    I don’t care what they do under Chrome. I only care what they do in Firefox.
    - Affric 3y ago
      Sure, but then why care about Apple at all? Opening up mobile browsers _would_ be good if not for the fact the consequence will be bugs that won't be fixed by devs for everyone not using Chrome. Just use Chrome is advice that will be given by the corps when these bugs arise. Our legislators are about to sleep walk into Google determining web standards fairly much unilaterally. Manifest V3 is what they do when they don't quite have that power. And that is a problem for Firefox users.
      - nickthegreek 3y ago
        Sounds like more people should stop using Chrome. Market power isn’t going to shift by tossing your hands in the air when viable alternatives not only exist but are free.
        Affric 3y ago
        Market power is definitely going to shift if web devs only test on Chrome. The viability of Firefox as a browser is definitely going to decrease if devs only test for chrome. People need services like banking, paying bills, secure web based portals. If the only browser these institutions are testing for is Chrome we will be in trouble. I could write a web app for a bank. I could write a payments platform for the bank. I cannot code a bank. I could write a platform for the wholesale energy market and a front end for payments. I cannot code an energy company. All I can see any of this doing in the medium term is increasing Google's market power and making the web less free. All in the name of getting Chrome on a device that is inherently unfree.
        mattnewton 3y ago
        As a seasoned web developer who has worked on multiple FAANG “.com” domains, I think you’re overstating the impact. Every big web shop already codes for market share, which means chrome, then hopefully has an iPhone they don’t allow to update to test in older versions of safari (sourcing them from eBay if necessary) to then litter their code with if safariBadVersionWhatevers. Smaller ones test it on their latest updated phone and then throw it over the wall, and call anything non-chrome best effort. To the extent that I’ve seen Firefox, supported it’s because the developers of the site personally use it. Nothing about the safari monoculture on iphones makes people support Firefox because support is 100% a function of market share, and the monoculture actually prevents the Firefox engine from getting a sliver of market share on iOS. The state right now isn’t “people code to web standards because safari forces them to” - its that they spend time % proportional to market %. That means code to chrome and then fix bugs in mobile safari. And even if chrome was wildly successful in getting iPhone users to switch and destroying safari marketshars there, reducing testing on safari, it doesn’t hurt Firefox. Testing on safari doesn’t help catch Firefox bugs because it’s a totally different engine.
smcleod 3y ago
It’s a lot larger than single digits. Those metrics are generated largely from tracking methods that Firefox blocks.
- Aerbil313 3y ago
  Hahaha. It'd be pretty ironic if Firefox eventually dies solely because no one bothers to support it because single digits on StatCounter which Firefox itself blocks. Someone should fix this. Don't block whatever trackers StatCounter use.

What is the user base of Firefox now? Single digits, last I hear. Chrome just keeps growing. Once iOS no longer uses WebKit as it’s base, the Chrome Blink will dominate.

nickthegreek 3y ago

So what? That does not affect those of us using Firefox.

astrange 3y ago
You don't know how many websites you're using do totally different things under an if (Chrome) though, or will in the future.
- mattnewton 3y ago
  I think I maybe get the broader argument you are trying to make, but in the context of gp’s comment, forcing web devs to test in and fix bugs in mobile safari because of its forced 100% iOS market share isn’t making people test in Firefox. And it currently not possible to run actual Firefox on your iphone, just a branded WebKit wrapper.
- nickthegreek 3y ago
  I don’t care what they do under Chrome. I only care what they do in Firefox.
  - Affric 3y ago
    Sure, but then why care about Apple at all? Opening up mobile browsers _would_ be good if not for the fact the consequence will be bugs that won't be fixed by devs for everyone not using Chrome. Just use Chrome is advice that will be given by the corps when these bugs arise. Our legislators are about to sleep walk into Google determining web standards fairly much unilaterally. Manifest V3 is what they do when they don't quite have that power. And that is a problem for Firefox users.
    - nickthegreek 3y ago
      Sounds like more people should stop using Chrome. Market power isn’t going to shift by tossing your hands in the air when viable alternatives not only exist but are free.
      - Affric 3y ago
        Market power is definitely going to shift if web devs only test on Chrome. The viability of Firefox as a browser is definitely going to decrease if devs only test for chrome. People need services like banking, paying bills, secure web based portals. If the only browser these institutions are testing for is Chrome we will be in trouble. I could write a web app for a bank. I could write a payments platform for the bank. I cannot code a bank. I could write a platform for the wholesale energy market and a front end for payments. I cannot code an energy company. All I can see any of this doing in the medium term is increasing Google's market power and making the web less free. All in the name of getting Chrome on a device that is inherently unfree.
        mattnewton 3y ago
        As a seasoned web developer who has worked on multiple FAANG “.com” domains, I think you’re overstating the impact. Every big web shop already codes for market share, which means chrome, then hopefully has an iPhone they don’t allow to update to test in older versions of safari (sourcing them from eBay if necessary) to then litter their code with if safariBadVersionWhatevers. Smaller ones test it on their latest updated phone and then throw it over the wall, and call anything non-chrome best effort. To the extent that I’ve seen Firefox, supported it’s because the developers of the site personally use it. Nothing about the safari monoculture on iphones makes people support Firefox because support is 100% a function of market share, and the monoculture actually prevents the Firefox engine from getting a sliver of market share on iOS. The state right now isn’t “people code to web standards because safari forces them to” - its that they spend time % proportional to market %. That means code to chrome and then fix bugs in mobile safari. And even if chrome was wildly successful in getting iPhone users to switch and destroying safari marketshars there, reducing testing on safari, it doesn’t hurt Firefox. Testing on safari doesn’t help catch Firefox bugs because it’s a totally different engine.

smcleod 3y ago

It’s a lot larger than single digits. Those metrics are generated largely from tracking methods that Firefox blocks.

Aerbil313 3y ago
Hahaha. It'd be pretty ironic if Firefox eventually dies solely because no one bothers to support it because single digits on StatCounter which Firefox itself blocks. Someone should fix this. Don't block whatever trackers StatCounter use.