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Guessing this is also related, from page 10: Amazon has implemented an algorithm for the express purpose of deterring other online stores from offering low

Guessing this is also related, from page 10: Amazon has implemented an algorithm for the express purpose of deterring other online stores from offering lower prices. [redacted] Rather than trying to compete, Amazon uses [redacted] Ultimately, this conduct is meant to deter rivals from attempting to compete on price altogether-competition that could bring lower prices to tens of millions of American households. As a result of this conduct, Amazon predicted, "prices will go up."

hotnfresh 3y ago
What especially rankles is how Amazon doesn’t give a fuck about counterfeits. So they’re allowing counterfeits (amplifying the mentioned effect) to discourage direct-sellers from attempting to compete on price. Meanwhile, I have to order from direct sellers to be sure I will get a genuine, new product. So I don’t even get Amazon’s lower-but-still-higher-than-optimal price, but a yet higher one. As far as I’m concerned the whole company’s a giant scam and I can’t believe it still hasn’t caught up with them. They benefit so very much from enabling bad actors, and have for so long clearly without any serious attempt to stop it, that I’ll do a happy dance the day they go under or get broken up. I just wish the eventual consequences could force Bezos to have to work for a living again, since he’s built his empire on fucking people weaker than him. Shouldn’t get to keep a penny of it.
- tornato7 3y ago
  Not just counterfeits but pages upon pages of shitty products from companies like WOWZAMGO and PARTUE that, now that they have sponsored rankings, will always come up first in search. They also all have endless fake reviews. This renders Amazon's search essentially useless.
  - TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
    WOWZAMGO makes quality products. I bought their portable usb battery and it only caught fire after the 20th charge cycle. PARTUE, on the other hand… don’t ask!
    - m463 3y ago
      What's funny is that I couldn't tell if this was serious or sarcastic at first glance. (caught fire -> sarcastic) Thing is, these silly UPPER-CASE-NONSENSE-COMPANIES are winning against established brands with quality products. Except there is a trend now where a brand with products of known good quality like YETI can now charge outrageous amounts of money - like 10x or more.
      - smugma 3y ago
        It’s hard to find that value niche in the middle. They do exist within categories eg Anker for USB related things.
        Nullabillity 3y ago
        The Anker that was selling "offline" cameras that phoned home plaintext images? Yeah, no thanks.
        russelg 3y ago
        Because your powerbank or charger definitely have those capabilities right?
        josefx 3y ago
        Never use untrusted usb devices without protection.
      - heleninboodler 3y ago
        The UPPERCASENONSENSENAMES are so obvious it makes me wonder if this is a target-selection technique in the same vein as the 419 scammers use -- make it so only the most clueless people would ever buy your garbage product, so you get a lower percentage of people who are going to report you.
        Avshalom 3y ago
  - jrockway 3y ago
    I don't really have a problem with this stuff. It's memeable (some great photoshop artists there; always good when the company has no photo of their actual product) and not that cheap, but I think of Amazon as an overpriced Shenzhen market and this stuff is essential to maintaining that vibe.
- Buttons840 3y ago
  How does Amazon avoid liability for selling scam products? Do they claim to be "just the middleman" and pass responsibility onto ghost-in-the-night companies selling the scam products? Or do they just abuse the legal system and make justice too expensive to be worth it? I don't know the law very well, but I would hope there's a legal doctrine that responsibility has to effectively land somewhere. If a company is passing responsibility en masse to some other entity that cannot be effectively sued, then the responsibility should actually lie with the first company.
  - hotnfresh 3y ago
    I have no idea, but companies routinely do shit that I assume would at least get me a fine in a hurry if I tried it. I don’t know how it works either. Like I’d have assumed deliberately dumping e-waste all over city sidewalks would get you a steep fine and an order to come pick them up or face an even steeper one within a matter of days—plus an absolute liability nightmare if, god forbid, anyone tripped over them and got hurt—but e-scooter companies have done it for years and have faced almost no consequences. I doubt I could get away with it. I dunno how they do.
    - pests 3y ago
      In the beginning it was a free-for-all but now cities require permits and have limits and require the companies to implment restricted zones where the scooter won't run.
  - throw9away6 3y ago
    The same way they avoided paying state taxes for over a decade. Too big to sue
- KyleJune 3y ago
  You might still be getting products from the same inventory pool in an Amazon warehouse when ordering directly if the company uses Amazon's Multi-Channel Fulfillment offering. They sell on their site, tell Amazon about the sale, then Amazon ships it to the customer. They even offer the option to ship it in unbranded boxes so that customers don't know the order is being fulfilled by Amazon.
  - hotnfresh 3y ago
    Ew, gross. I’m pretty sure the couple companies I order from regularly that also have an Amazon presence don’t do that, since they have direct-order products not listed on Amazon and often include little touches like a bonus sample or handwritten note that you don’t get if you order their stuff on Amazon, but good to know to watch out for that.
    - pests 3y ago
      > since they have direct-order products not listed on Amazon This is still at-risk because you are not required to list on Amazon to use FBA. The handwritten note is a better indicator for sure.
  - datavirtue 3y ago
    So tired of being on the shit-end of a drop-ship.
- edub 3y ago
  Counterfeits: In August 2014, I purchased from Amazon, shipped from Amazon (just checked my order history to verify), an Apple MagSafe Power Adapter. It was clearly counterfeit. I contacted Amazon and told them it was fake, without hesitation they told me to throw it away and they were sending me a replacement. It would be hard for me to believe that they didn't know exactly which company shipped them that product. It would be easy for me to believe that they didn't notify every other customer that received that product from the same shipment.

hotnfresh 3y ago

What especially rankles is how Amazon doesn’t give a fuck about counterfeits. So they’re allowing counterfeits (amplifying the mentioned effect) to discourage direct-sellers from attempting to compete on price. Meanwhile, I have to order from direct sellers to be sure I will get a genuine, new product. So I don’t even get Amazon’s lower-but-still-higher-than-optimal price, but a yet higher one. As far as I’m concerned the whole company’s a giant scam and I can’t believe it still hasn’t caught up with them. They benefit so very much from enabling bad actors, and have for so long clearly without any serious attempt to stop it, that I’ll do a happy dance the day they go under or get broken up. I just wish the eventual consequences could force Bezos to have to work for a living again, since he’s built his empire on fucking people weaker than him. Shouldn’t get to keep a penny of it.

tornato7 3y ago
Not just counterfeits but pages upon pages of shitty products from companies like WOWZAMGO and PARTUE that, now that they have sponsored rankings, will always come up first in search. They also all have endless fake reviews. This renders Amazon's search essentially useless.
- TedDoesntTalk 3y ago
  WOWZAMGO makes quality products. I bought their portable usb battery and it only caught fire after the 20th charge cycle. PARTUE, on the other hand… don’t ask!
  - m463 3y ago
    What's funny is that I couldn't tell if this was serious or sarcastic at first glance. (caught fire -> sarcastic) Thing is, these silly UPPER-CASE-NONSENSE-COMPANIES are winning against established brands with quality products. Except there is a trend now where a brand with products of known good quality like YETI can now charge outrageous amounts of money - like 10x or more.
    - smugma 3y ago
      It’s hard to find that value niche in the middle. They do exist within categories eg Anker for USB related things.
      - Nullabillity 3y ago
        The Anker that was selling "offline" cameras that phoned home plaintext images? Yeah, no thanks.
        russelg 3y ago
        Because your powerbank or charger definitely have those capabilities right?
        josefx 3y ago
        Never use untrusted usb devices without protection.
    - heleninboodler 3y ago
      The UPPERCASENONSENSENAMES are so obvious it makes me wonder if this is a target-selection technique in the same vein as the 419 scammers use -- make it so only the most clueless people would ever buy your garbage product, so you get a lower percentage of people who are going to report you.
      - Avshalom 3y ago
- jrockway 3y ago
  I don't really have a problem with this stuff. It's memeable (some great photoshop artists there; always good when the company has no photo of their actual product) and not that cheap, but I think of Amazon as an overpriced Shenzhen market and this stuff is essential to maintaining that vibe.
Buttons840 3y ago
How does Amazon avoid liability for selling scam products? Do they claim to be "just the middleman" and pass responsibility onto ghost-in-the-night companies selling the scam products? Or do they just abuse the legal system and make justice too expensive to be worth it? I don't know the law very well, but I would hope there's a legal doctrine that responsibility has to effectively land somewhere. If a company is passing responsibility en masse to some other entity that cannot be effectively sued, then the responsibility should actually lie with the first company.
- hotnfresh 3y ago
  I have no idea, but companies routinely do shit that I assume would at least get me a fine in a hurry if I tried it. I don’t know how it works either. Like I’d have assumed deliberately dumping e-waste all over city sidewalks would get you a steep fine and an order to come pick them up or face an even steeper one within a matter of days—plus an absolute liability nightmare if, god forbid, anyone tripped over them and got hurt—but e-scooter companies have done it for years and have faced almost no consequences. I doubt I could get away with it. I dunno how they do.
  - pests 3y ago
    In the beginning it was a free-for-all but now cities require permits and have limits and require the companies to implment restricted zones where the scooter won't run.
- throw9away6 3y ago
  The same way they avoided paying state taxes for over a decade. Too big to sue
KyleJune 3y ago
You might still be getting products from the same inventory pool in an Amazon warehouse when ordering directly if the company uses Amazon's Multi-Channel Fulfillment offering. They sell on their site, tell Amazon about the sale, then Amazon ships it to the customer. They even offer the option to ship it in unbranded boxes so that customers don't know the order is being fulfilled by Amazon.
- hotnfresh 3y ago
  Ew, gross. I’m pretty sure the couple companies I order from regularly that also have an Amazon presence don’t do that, since they have direct-order products not listed on Amazon and often include little touches like a bonus sample or handwritten note that you don’t get if you order their stuff on Amazon, but good to know to watch out for that.
  - pests 3y ago
    > since they have direct-order products not listed on Amazon This is still at-risk because you are not required to list on Amazon to use FBA. The handwritten note is a better indicator for sure.
- datavirtue 3y ago
  So tired of being on the shit-end of a drop-ship.
edub 3y ago
Counterfeits: In August 2014, I purchased from Amazon, shipped from Amazon (just checked my order history to verify), an Apple MagSafe Power Adapter. It was clearly counterfeit. I contacted Amazon and told them it was fake, without hesitation they told me to throw it away and they were sending me a replacement. It would be hard for me to believe that they didn't know exactly which company shipped them that product. It would be easy for me to believe that they didn't notify every other customer that received that product from the same shipment.