4 ms·

Adjacent/Off Topic: It's really time we disband or seriously curtail the TSA. Plane travel in the US is absurd. I understand that it is s jobs scheme/work progr

by wand3r 3y ago

Adjacent/Off Topic: It's really time we disband or seriously curtail the TSA. Plane travel in the US is absurd. I understand that it is s jobs scheme/work program welfare, but this makes air travel extremely difficult. At a minimum policy should be reworked around shoes & liquids and the TSA itself should be used to optimize efficiency.

nh23423fefe 3y ago
but have you considered terrorism? how will we fight them at the airport instead of american streets?
- rolph 3y ago
  im not trying to roast you, but i cant find any indication that TSA procedures, policies, or persons, have stopped any terrorist incident. if you have, please share, as it looks like TSA in the present form is used for something other than transport safety, and duplicates many CBP functions.
  - justrealist 3y ago
    I'm strongly in favor of massively de-scoping the TSA, but let's be real — if you could blow up a passenger plane by mailing a bomb, with no screening whatsoever, it would have been tried a few times. It's silly to discount the deterrent effect. There are not terrorists lurking behind every door, but there are certainly disgruntled people who would do damage if there were no consequences or inhibitions.
    - rolph 3y ago
      the war probably had a major deterrent effect as well.
- throwbadubadu 3y ago
  Is this irony?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Aloha 3y ago
What do you replace it with? Before you answer - consider the Status Quo prior to 9/11, it was private security, run by individual airlines or groups of airlines as needed. It was not (always) centralized and often was only done at the gate point. Is the issue with TSA or TSA policies? I think we can relax TSA policy some, certainly at least on shoes - though many travelers will still need to remove shoes before the shoe has an internal metal support.
- rolph 3y ago
  no joke intended, some peoples shoes are so beyond nasty, that i would anticipate removal would trigger a chem hazard, or pathogen alert.
- something168581 3y ago
  9/11 was not a result of lax security in airports, but lacking security measures onboard planes themselves which have since been addressed with reinforced locking cockpit doors being sealed before departure, etc. It's been proven time and time again even by other government agencies that it is trivially easy to sneak "dangerous" things (including knives and firearms) through TSA checkpoints onto planes. The current state of airport "security" in the USA is 110% theatre which taxpayers and travelers pay through the nose for.
  - Aloha 3y ago
    I'm not even gonna go into if lax security was at the root of 9/11, I think it was certainly contributory but definitely not causal. That does not answer my question - we dismantled the previous system and subsumed private sector expertise in airline security into TSA - so if not TSA, who should be doing it and how should it be done? Like I think we could just as well have TSA doing it with policies returned back to 2000 (though I'm skeptical of rolling back the clock that much)? Like, I don't disagree with the idea that TSA is about 50% theatre - it is, its meant to make Bob and Eileen from Cedar Rapids who fly twice a decade feel safe.
    - KerrAvon 3y ago
radicalcentrist 3y ago
Calling it a jobs program is overly generous. It's broken windows fallacy. Considering the ineffectiveness of the TSA as shown by multiple audits, opportunity cost of waiting in security lines, lost revenue to airlines, and increased road fatalities due to flight aversion, it's a massive net loss to the economy for no actual benefit to safety.
- anigbrowl 3y ago
  Extremely relevant, albeit somewhat dated by now: https://www.brown.edu/Departments/Economics/Faculty/Glenn_Loury/louryhomepage/teaching/Ec%20222/Garrison%20America.pdf https://www.brown.edu/Departments/Economics/Faculty/Glenn_Lo... I don't know why nobody has maintained this line of inquiry in the nearly 20 years since this was published.
P_I_Staker 3y ago
I've yet to see much differences in my travels. They run your shit through the machines in europe, just don't take your liquids... kinda a bitch, but people act like they gotta run the gauntlet.

by wand3r 3y ago

nh23423fefe 3y ago

but have you considered terrorism? how will we fight them at the airport instead of american streets?

rolph 3y ago
im not trying to roast you, but i cant find any indication that TSA procedures, policies, or persons, have stopped any terrorist incident. if you have, please share, as it looks like TSA in the present form is used for something other than transport safety, and duplicates many CBP functions.
- justrealist 3y ago
  I'm strongly in favor of massively de-scoping the TSA, but let's be real — if you could blow up a passenger plane by mailing a bomb, with no screening whatsoever, it would have been tried a few times. It's silly to discount the deterrent effect. There are not terrorists lurking behind every door, but there are certainly disgruntled people who would do damage if there were no consequences or inhibitions.
  - rolph 3y ago
    the war probably had a major deterrent effect as well.
throwbadubadu 3y ago
Is this irony?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Aloha 3y ago

What do you replace it with? Before you answer - consider the Status Quo prior to 9/11, it was private security, run by individual airlines or groups of airlines as needed. It was not (always) centralized and often was only done at the gate point. Is the issue with TSA or TSA policies? I think we can relax TSA policy some, certainly at least on shoes - though many travelers will still need to remove shoes before the shoe has an internal metal support.

rolph 3y ago
no joke intended, some peoples shoes are so beyond nasty, that i would anticipate removal would trigger a chem hazard, or pathogen alert.
something168581 3y ago
9/11 was not a result of lax security in airports, but lacking security measures onboard planes themselves which have since been addressed with reinforced locking cockpit doors being sealed before departure, etc. It's been proven time and time again even by other government agencies that it is trivially easy to sneak "dangerous" things (including knives and firearms) through TSA checkpoints onto planes. The current state of airport "security" in the USA is 110% theatre which taxpayers and travelers pay through the nose for.
- Aloha 3y ago
  I'm not even gonna go into if lax security was at the root of 9/11, I think it was certainly contributory but definitely not causal. That does not answer my question - we dismantled the previous system and subsumed private sector expertise in airline security into TSA - so if not TSA, who should be doing it and how should it be done? Like I think we could just as well have TSA doing it with policies returned back to 2000 (though I'm skeptical of rolling back the clock that much)? Like, I don't disagree with the idea that TSA is about 50% theatre - it is, its meant to make Bob and Eileen from Cedar Rapids who fly twice a decade feel safe.
  - KerrAvon 3y ago

radicalcentrist 3y ago

Calling it a jobs program is overly generous. It's broken windows fallacy. Considering the ineffectiveness of the TSA as shown by multiple audits, opportunity cost of waiting in security lines, lost revenue to airlines, and increased road fatalities due to flight aversion, it's a massive net loss to the economy for no actual benefit to safety.

anigbrowl 3y ago
Extremely relevant, albeit somewhat dated by now: https://www.brown.edu/Departments/Economics/Faculty/Glenn_Loury/louryhomepage/teaching/Ec%20222/Garrison%20America.pdf https://www.brown.edu/Departments/Economics/Faculty/Glenn_Lo... I don't know why nobody has maintained this line of inquiry in the nearly 20 years since this was published.

P_I_Staker 3y ago

I've yet to see much differences in my travels. They run your shit through the machines in europe, just don't take your liquids... kinda a bitch, but people act like they gotta run the gauntlet.