4 ms·

Vizro – toolkit for creating modular data visualization applications

133 points by joelschw 3y ago

anigbrowl 3y ago
I don't get it. Why not just use Plotly and Dash directly, neither of which are especially hard? This seems like a pointless layer of abstraction.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- jlnho 3y ago
  Mainly because you won't have to write as much glue code.
  - frognumber 3y ago
    I think it's two pieces: 1) Removal of the need for complex glue code (filters, callbacks, etc.). This is nice so less sophisticated users can develop dashboards. 2) Easy hosting / deployment. I don't want that in the same system (I use dash in my own apps, and it's nice I'm not tied to much of anything else) That's me extrapolating from a little bit of poking. I could be wrong.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- maxschulz-COL 3y ago
  Thank you for your feedback! I am one of the engineers on team :) So we introduced this layer to serve as a configuration driven assembly system which implements built-in visual styling and an opinionated approach in terms of both application architecture and UX, in order to enable standardisation in code and user journeys for multi-screen applications and complex interactions between components.
  - frognumber 3y ago
    This looks nice! Critical feedback: - Spending about 5-10 minutes on your page, I also couldn't figure out why or what you were trying to do. The copy you wrote above is perhaps clearer, but not clear. - You have less than 5-10 minutes to sell me on what you're doing. - I began to get it when I clicked on the screenshot, and saw controls with vm.Filter(column=... - To use this myself, I'd want to be able to add it incrementally to dash / plot.ly apps. You don't want to force yourself to be "the framework." You want to be able to slot into diverse places. The different pieces should be modular enough to do that. - In one of your other posts, you wrote: "while it is currently optimised to leverage Plotly and Dash, it could theoretically utilise components from other packages such as StreamLit in future." This seems like a very bad idea. Plotly and dash are well-architected and expandable (it's trivial to integrate components from other sources with React). You don't want to reinvent the wheels plotly/dash invented. If you want to slot in other components, please use their architecture. In other words, clearly communicate your value-add, and focus on that value-add. Don't try to do / be everything. Things outside of that value-add should be PRs back into dash / plot.ly, or independent, modular pieces in their own repos.
    - maxschulz-COL 3y ago
      Thank you very much for the feedback! We are definitely taking these points into consideration.
beeb 3y ago
So, like streamlit?
0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
I am happy to see more libraries in this space. I do not like R, but the Shiny workflow is so much faster and easier for novices to bang out some value. Streamlit is really heavy in comparison. Minor annoyance: new project and it chose YAML over TOML.
amcaskill 3y ago
If you are interested in this, but would prefer to define reports with a markup language (and SQL), I work on an open source code-based BI tool called Evidence, which might be of interest to you. It's effectively a static site generator aimed at building automated reports and analysis. https://github.com/evidence-dev/evidence https://github.com/evidence-dev/evidence Previous discussions on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28304781 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28304781 - 91 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35645464 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35645464 - 97 comments
- sramam 3y ago
  this is so brilliant! Well done.
- agosta 3y ago
  Evidence looks incredible! I would start using it right away except I don't see it having any sort of date range picker / filter capability. Is the concept of being able to let our end users filter / drill into graphs with customized queries at odds with how Evidence works? Or are these things just not built yet?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - amcaskill 3y ago
    They are in progress right now, and they are really slick! Will be landing later in October. If you want to read about / play around with the version of the product that supports that type of thing, it's in a pre-release here: https://github.com/evidence-dev/template/tree/next https://github.com/evidence-dev/template/tree/next
    - agosta 3y ago
      Amazing!
- joelschw 3y ago
TheAlchemist 3y ago
This look pretty good ! I'm a heavy user of data vis, and this looks worth trying. Looks like McKinsey is doing and open sourcing some interesting things - I've also tried Kedro and while it feels a bit 'heavy' to use, I like a lot the emphasis on structuring the data and steps.
- maxschulz-COL 3y ago
  Thanks a lot for your feedback :) Let us know what you think, we appreciate all feedback!
archiewood 3y ago
This is interesting. I've built reports in Dash before. As I remember it was kind of tricky to hook up the filters etc, and "callbacks" confused me for a while. Is that the kind of thing Vizro addresses? Do you have a "why Vizro" kind of explanation somewhere? Would be really helpful early in the docs, or on the GH readme.
- maxschulz-COL 3y ago
  Thank you very much for your feedback! I am one of the engineers on the team. Indeed, what you describe is certainly one of the issues we wanted to address. Regarding "why Vizro": As we all know it is hard to compare tools like for like, but we see Vizro as a great combination of benefits offered by existing tools (given that some have been mentioned on this thread); it leverages a simplicity and low-code solution approach, but it still enables users the flexibility to customize advanced solutions. It keeps configurations simple even if you create more sophisticated actions/callbacks. It comes with an out-of-the box sophisticated look and feel. The approach of using a configuration layer to enforce standardisation in the way that components and code is assembled utilises a grammar which is largely tech agnostic, and while it is currently optimised to leverage Plotly and Dash, it could theoretically utilise components from other packages such as StreamLit in future
  - joelschw 3y ago
    I'd put this in the readme!
jampekka 3y ago
Some discussions on other McKinsey contributions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33869800 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33869800 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31975877 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31975877 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28746538 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28746538
nrjames 3y ago
Vizro looks nice, as does Evidence (mentioned below). I think it's good to remember that these types of apps often don't exist in a silo. It would be excellent to be able to integrate them into a larger platform (Django app, etc) to create a less disjointed experience for consumers.

133 points by joelschw 3y ago

I don't get it. Why not just use Plotly and Dash directly, neither of which are especially hard? This seems like a pointless layer of abstraction.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jlnho 3y ago
Mainly because you won't have to write as much glue code.
- frognumber 3y ago
  I think it's two pieces: 1) Removal of the need for complex glue code (filters, callbacks, etc.). This is nice so less sophisticated users can develop dashboards. 2) Easy hosting / deployment. I don't want that in the same system (I use dash in my own apps, and it's nice I'm not tied to much of anything else) That's me extrapolating from a little bit of poking. I could be wrong.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
maxschulz-COL 3y ago
Thank you for your feedback! I am one of the engineers on team :) So we introduced this layer to serve as a configuration driven assembly system which implements built-in visual styling and an opinionated approach in terms of both application architecture and UX, in order to enable standardisation in code and user journeys for multi-screen applications and complex interactions between components.
- frognumber 3y ago
  This looks nice! Critical feedback: - Spending about 5-10 minutes on your page, I also couldn't figure out why or what you were trying to do. The copy you wrote above is perhaps clearer, but not clear. - You have less than 5-10 minutes to sell me on what you're doing. - I began to get it when I clicked on the screenshot, and saw controls with vm.Filter(column=... - To use this myself, I'd want to be able to add it incrementally to dash / plot.ly apps. You don't want to force yourself to be "the framework." You want to be able to slot into diverse places. The different pieces should be modular enough to do that. - In one of your other posts, you wrote: "while it is currently optimised to leverage Plotly and Dash, it could theoretically utilise components from other packages such as StreamLit in future." This seems like a very bad idea. Plotly and dash are well-architected and expandable (it's trivial to integrate components from other sources with React). You don't want to reinvent the wheels plotly/dash invented. If you want to slot in other components, please use their architecture. In other words, clearly communicate your value-add, and focus on that value-add. Don't try to do / be everything. Things outside of that value-add should be PRs back into dash / plot.ly, or independent, modular pieces in their own repos.
  - maxschulz-COL 3y ago
    Thank you very much for the feedback! We are definitely taking these points into consideration.

beeb 3y ago

So, like streamlit?

0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago

I am happy to see more libraries in this space. I do not like R, but the Shiny workflow is so much faster and easier for novices to bang out some value. Streamlit is really heavy in comparison. Minor annoyance: new project and it chose YAML over TOML.

amcaskill 3y ago

If you are interested in this, but would prefer to define reports with a markup language (and SQL), I work on an open source code-based BI tool called Evidence, which might be of interest to you. It's effectively a static site generator aimed at building automated reports and analysis. https://github.com/evidence-dev/evidence https://github.com/evidence-dev/evidence Previous discussions on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28304781 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28304781 - 91 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35645464 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35645464 - 97 comments

sramam 3y ago
this is so brilliant! Well done.
agosta 3y ago
Evidence looks incredible! I would start using it right away except I don't see it having any sort of date range picker / filter capability. Is the concept of being able to let our end users filter / drill into graphs with customized queries at odds with how Evidence works? Or are these things just not built yet?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- amcaskill 3y ago
  They are in progress right now, and they are really slick! Will be landing later in October. If you want to read about / play around with the version of the product that supports that type of thing, it's in a pre-release here: https://github.com/evidence-dev/template/tree/next https://github.com/evidence-dev/template/tree/next
  - agosta 3y ago
    Amazing!
joelschw 3y ago

TheAlchemist 3y ago

This look pretty good ! I'm a heavy user of data vis, and this looks worth trying. Looks like McKinsey is doing and open sourcing some interesting things - I've also tried Kedro and while it feels a bit 'heavy' to use, I like a lot the emphasis on structuring the data and steps.

maxschulz-COL 3y ago
Thanks a lot for your feedback :) Let us know what you think, we appreciate all feedback!

archiewood 3y ago

This is interesting. I've built reports in Dash before. As I remember it was kind of tricky to hook up the filters etc, and "callbacks" confused me for a while. Is that the kind of thing Vizro addresses? Do you have a "why Vizro" kind of explanation somewhere? Would be really helpful early in the docs, or on the GH readme.

maxschulz-COL 3y ago
Thank you very much for your feedback! I am one of the engineers on the team. Indeed, what you describe is certainly one of the issues we wanted to address. Regarding "why Vizro": As we all know it is hard to compare tools like for like, but we see Vizro as a great combination of benefits offered by existing tools (given that some have been mentioned on this thread); it leverages a simplicity and low-code solution approach, but it still enables users the flexibility to customize advanced solutions. It keeps configurations simple even if you create more sophisticated actions/callbacks. It comes with an out-of-the box sophisticated look and feel. The approach of using a configuration layer to enforce standardisation in the way that components and code is assembled utilises a grammar which is largely tech agnostic, and while it is currently optimised to leverage Plotly and Dash, it could theoretically utilise components from other packages such as StreamLit in future
- joelschw 3y ago
  I'd put this in the readme!

jampekka 3y ago

Some discussions on other McKinsey contributions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33869800 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33869800 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31975877 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31975877 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28746538 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28746538

nrjames 3y ago

Vizro looks nice, as does Evidence (mentioned below). I think it's good to remember that these types of apps often don't exist in a silo. It would be excellent to be able to integrate them into a larger platform (Django app, etc) to create a less disjointed experience for consumers.