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I wish we could make this more well-defined because this is every company ever entering a new market supported by their existing business. If you actually outla

by Spivak 3y ago

I wish we could make this more well-defined because this is every company ever entering a new market supported by their existing business. If you actually outlawed all of it it would kill every medium or larger business (which isn't to say I'm not opposed to outlawing it) because that's just the game. The business that has to take on funding and pay interest will struggle against the conglomerate with a war chest larger than your TAM. Amazon has some shitty practices but I expect a lot of pushback in this lawsuit as a bunch of other companies see a target on their back for stuff they've been doing for longer than Amazon's been around.

ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
it was well defined enough for the FTC to bring this suit with a pretty detailed complaint, I think we're good there "other companies" don't have the same market power here, or indeed engage in the same anticompetitive behavior, but again, that's all explained when you read the FTC complaint detailing the actual behaviors in question
- taeric 3y ago
  Sadly, no it isn't. Them calling out that they are not going after Amazon because they are too big, but because they did thing X is very problematic for the clear definitions. That is, as well defined as some concerns are, this complaint actually throws out a ton of that and makes it even less clear.
  - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
    fortunately, it was, hence the existence of the complaint if the FTC didn't know whether their rules applied, they wouldn't have been able to draft a complaint explaining how they do penalizing suppliers for offering lower prices elsewhere, for example, is pretty clearly anticompetitive
    - taeric 3y ago
      Don't confuse criticism of the FTC with praise for Amazon here. The FTC seems to be continuing weak cases, and at least some of us view that as very problematic. If we are going to rebuild some of the surrounding rules such that these practices are illegal, I'm all for it. If it turns out that I'm wrong and they do manage to make the market healthier with a suit against Amazon, great. This doesn't look strong in that direction, though. This reeks of populist appeal from folks that know it is a politically savvy move to bash Amazon.
      - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
        there's no need, as the practices are already illegal, and the rules are already built, and the FTC is already filing strong cases like this one the criticism of this latest case, however, reeks of corporate worship from folks that know that Amazon is in the wrong (as the complaint documents)
        taeric 3y ago
        This is not a strong case, is what a lot of us are asserting. You can disagree there, but realize our disagreement here isn't that Amazon is a good company. It is on the strength of this case. It really feels like one that is being brought more for optics than otherwise. I say this as someone that thought they should have had a strong case against Microsoft buying Activision. And yet, just look how that went. Maybe I'm wrong. Shouldn't take too long for us to find out, all told. I remember the stories of what Walmart did and still does in retail, though. It is obscene to see how that has played out in time.
        ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
        I understand you are asserting that, and what a lot of us are asserting after reading all the allegations is that it is a strong case You can disagree, and that's fine, I'm not saying your personal disagreement specifically is support for Amazon, it's just that's the optics of the individuals disagreeing with the case the FTC presented here, for a lot of us, seem to be corporate/capitalism worship and/or personal disagreement with the existing rules and laws against anticompetitive behavior that Amazon clearly violated here (as detailed in the complaint)

by Spivak 3y ago

ImPostingOnHN 3y ago

it was well defined enough for the FTC to bring this suit with a pretty detailed complaint, I think we're good there "other companies" don't have the same market power here, or indeed engage in the same anticompetitive behavior, but again, that's all explained when you read the FTC complaint detailing the actual behaviors in question

taeric 3y ago
Sadly, no it isn't. Them calling out that they are not going after Amazon because they are too big, but because they did thing X is very problematic for the clear definitions. That is, as well defined as some concerns are, this complaint actually throws out a ton of that and makes it even less clear.
- ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
  fortunately, it was, hence the existence of the complaint if the FTC didn't know whether their rules applied, they wouldn't have been able to draft a complaint explaining how they do penalizing suppliers for offering lower prices elsewhere, for example, is pretty clearly anticompetitive
  - taeric 3y ago
    Don't confuse criticism of the FTC with praise for Amazon here. The FTC seems to be continuing weak cases, and at least some of us view that as very problematic. If we are going to rebuild some of the surrounding rules such that these practices are illegal, I'm all for it. If it turns out that I'm wrong and they do manage to make the market healthier with a suit against Amazon, great. This doesn't look strong in that direction, though. This reeks of populist appeal from folks that know it is a politically savvy move to bash Amazon.
    - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
      there's no need, as the practices are already illegal, and the rules are already built, and the FTC is already filing strong cases like this one the criticism of this latest case, however, reeks of corporate worship from folks that know that Amazon is in the wrong (as the complaint documents)
      - taeric 3y ago
        This is not a strong case, is what a lot of us are asserting. You can disagree there, but realize our disagreement here isn't that Amazon is a good company. It is on the strength of this case. It really feels like one that is being brought more for optics than otherwise. I say this as someone that thought they should have had a strong case against Microsoft buying Activision. And yet, just look how that went. Maybe I'm wrong. Shouldn't take too long for us to find out, all told. I remember the stories of what Walmart did and still does in retail, though. It is obscene to see how that has played out in time.
        ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
        I understand you are asserting that, and what a lot of us are asserting after reading all the allegations is that it is a strong case You can disagree, and that's fine, I'm not saying your personal disagreement specifically is support for Amazon, it's just that's the optics of the individuals disagreeing with the case the FTC presented here, for a lot of us, seem to be corporate/capitalism worship and/or personal disagreement with the existing rules and laws against anticompetitive behavior that Amazon clearly violated here (as detailed in the complaint)