4 ms·

(disclaimer: Amazon employee) For that one, it's mandated by publishers. There's nothing that can be done for e-readers from vendors that don't support third-p

by my123 3y ago

(disclaimer: Amazon employee) For that one, it's mandated by publishers. There's nothing that can be done for e-readers from vendors that don't support third-party applications. Amazon e-books are accessible on Android and other platforms in addition to Kindle devices. Kindle is also not locked to only ebooks from Amazon, but third-party DRM schemes are not supported. Calibre for example comes with good tooling for that use case.

criddell 3y ago
> For that one, it's mandated by publishers. I believe the publishers want DRM. I'm not sure they want DRM that effectively locks in their readers to the Amazon ecosystem. I don't believe publishers would be upset if I could directly purchase books from Apple, Google, Kobo, or any other similar vendor directly on the Kindle. Is the audiobook market different? I know Cory Doctorow for one would like to sell his audio books through Audible but they require DRM. Care to defend that?
- my123 3y ago
  > but they require DRM There's no option to sell on Kindle's own store with DRM disabled indeed. edit: A poster has a link saying otherwise. Will ask what's up on the Audible side then.
  - delecti 3y ago
    Sure there is. From here https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0879H8NNB https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0879H8NNB > At the Publisher's request, this title is being sold without Digital Rights Management Software (DRM) applied. (Specific title as just a convenient example from that publisher)
- emodendroket 3y ago
  Nothing prevents you from buying from a different seller and reading the materials on your Kindle, other than the fact those other sellers have their own DRM locking you into their ecosystem instead.
Uvix 3y ago
The same was true for music once upon a time, but that didn't stop Apple from negotiating for DRM-free with the publishers.
- my123 3y ago
  Leverage on music was much bigger because of the position that Apple had at the time, together with CDs not having DRM. That was a unique situation that couldn't be replicated later for video and other media sadly.
  - gameoverhumans 3y ago
    Some cursory web searches reinforce an assumption I had: Amazon absolutely dominate the eBook sales market, with figures from 65-80% of all sales being indicated. So how can you make the case that Amazon doesn't have "leverage" to negotiate DRM-free publishing? > together with CDs not having DRM I don't recall printed books ever having any form of "DRM".
    - sib 3y ago
      In fact, Amazon does allow eBooks to be sold through the Kindle store without DRM, and many are sold that way. It's completely up to the discretion of the publisher. Whereas I have many eBooks purchased years ago from Apple's store that I can only read on Apple devices, not on my Kindle.
callalex 3y ago
Amazon could leverage their market power to benefit the consumer like Apple did when they eliminated music DRM.
- NickC25 3y ago
  Exactly. The publishers need Amazon, and Amazon doesn't need the publishers. They have more than enough power to be able to dictate terms. Apple realized this and was able to bully their way to a deal that worked for Apple, and the labels had no real ability to counter Apple. Amazon has yet to do so. Arguably, Amazon has substantially more market power now than Apple did back in the Jobs days when they were building out iTunes and negotiating with the major labels.
- sib 3y ago
  Or not... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Apple_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Apple_Inc.
thomastjeffery 3y ago
That's because publishers practice anti-competitive behavior, too. We need to quit getting lost in the word, "monopoly". No part of this problem is from a single actor dominating the entire market. The problems are anti-competitive behavior and vertical integration. DRM is literally intended to support copyright monopoly. The entire purpose and function of DRM is to prevent competition in the form of "copyright infringement".
m463 3y ago
What I can't figure out is that many books (such as Tor) have a notice: At the Publisher's request, this title is being sold without Digital Rights Management Software (DRM) applied. Are these encrypted anyway on kindle?
- sib 3y ago
  Because Amazon allows publishers to choose to sell eBooks without DRM. If an eBook sold in the Kindle store has DRM, the publisher chose to have it that way.
  - m463 3y ago
    yes, but is the kindle data file encrypted?
    - ChadNauseam 3y ago
      no, and it’s pretty trivial to grab and upload to google play books or similar sites

by my123 3y ago

criddell 3y ago

> For that one, it's mandated by publishers. I believe the publishers want DRM. I'm not sure they want DRM that effectively locks in their readers to the Amazon ecosystem. I don't believe publishers would be upset if I could directly purchase books from Apple, Google, Kobo, or any other similar vendor directly on the Kindle. Is the audiobook market different? I know Cory Doctorow for one would like to sell his audio books through Audible but they require DRM. Care to defend that?

my123 3y ago
> but they require DRM There's no option to sell on Kindle's own store with DRM disabled indeed. edit: A poster has a link saying otherwise. Will ask what's up on the Audible side then.
- delecti 3y ago
  Sure there is. From here https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0879H8NNB https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0879H8NNB > At the Publisher's request, this title is being sold without Digital Rights Management Software (DRM) applied. (Specific title as just a convenient example from that publisher)
emodendroket 3y ago
Nothing prevents you from buying from a different seller and reading the materials on your Kindle, other than the fact those other sellers have their own DRM locking you into their ecosystem instead.

Uvix 3y ago

The same was true for music once upon a time, but that didn't stop Apple from negotiating for DRM-free with the publishers.

my123 3y ago
Leverage on music was much bigger because of the position that Apple had at the time, together with CDs not having DRM. That was a unique situation that couldn't be replicated later for video and other media sadly.
- gameoverhumans 3y ago
  Some cursory web searches reinforce an assumption I had: Amazon absolutely dominate the eBook sales market, with figures from 65-80% of all sales being indicated. So how can you make the case that Amazon doesn't have "leverage" to negotiate DRM-free publishing? > together with CDs not having DRM I don't recall printed books ever having any form of "DRM".
  - sib 3y ago
    In fact, Amazon does allow eBooks to be sold through the Kindle store without DRM, and many are sold that way. It's completely up to the discretion of the publisher. Whereas I have many eBooks purchased years ago from Apple's store that I can only read on Apple devices, not on my Kindle.

callalex 3y ago

Amazon could leverage their market power to benefit the consumer like Apple did when they eliminated music DRM.

NickC25 3y ago
Exactly. The publishers need Amazon, and Amazon doesn't need the publishers. They have more than enough power to be able to dictate terms. Apple realized this and was able to bully their way to a deal that worked for Apple, and the labels had no real ability to counter Apple. Amazon has yet to do so. Arguably, Amazon has substantially more market power now than Apple did back in the Jobs days when they were building out iTunes and negotiating with the major labels.
sib 3y ago
Or not... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Apple_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Apple_Inc.

thomastjeffery 3y ago

That's because publishers practice anti-competitive behavior, too. We need to quit getting lost in the word, "monopoly". No part of this problem is from a single actor dominating the entire market. The problems are anti-competitive behavior and vertical integration. DRM is literally intended to support copyright monopoly. The entire purpose and function of DRM is to prevent competition in the form of "copyright infringement".

m463 3y ago

What I can't figure out is that many books (such as Tor) have a notice: At the Publisher's request, this title is being sold without Digital Rights Management Software (DRM) applied. Are these encrypted anyway on kindle?

sib 3y ago
Because Amazon allows publishers to choose to sell eBooks without DRM. If an eBook sold in the Kindle store has DRM, the publisher chose to have it that way.
- m463 3y ago
  yes, but is the kindle data file encrypted?
  - ChadNauseam 3y ago
    no, and it’s pretty trivial to grab and upload to google play books or similar sites