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The amount of mental gymnastics on display here (not to mention bloodthirstiness) to not acknowledge that the new terms are genuinely a huge improvement and lik

The amount of mental gymnastics on display here (not to mention bloodthirstiness) to not acknowledge that the new terms are genuinely a huge improvement and likely palatable to the majority of game actual developers in crazy. I have a few friends who work on relatively medium-scale game development operations and every one of them is basically saying “oh thank god, we can work with this”. But reading this thread you’d think it was still a catastrophe, just a slightly smaller one.

rybosworld 3y ago
I don't see any comments in this thread that argue the new terms are worse than before. I also don't see any comments that argue the new terms aren't palatable. As far as I can tell, most of the discussion is to the effect of: "does a reversion to only slightly shitty pricing terms make up for initially trying to get away with super shitty terms?"
JohnFen 3y ago
> to not acknowledge that the new terms are genuinely a huge improvement I'll acknowledge that! But it doesn't matter. This is the second time that Unity retroactively changed the terms of their deal. That they removed the retroactive part is great, but that they've done it twice also indicates that it will happen again at some point in the future. So, for me, it doesn't matter in the slightest how favorable their new terms are. They've shown their true colors and they can't take that back. That's why I won't be buying any Unity-based games in the future. Unity is a bad actor, and I don't want to support their business.
hn_acker 3y ago
> The amount of mental gymnastics on display here (not to mention bloodthirstiness) to not acknowledge that the new terms are genuinely a huge improvement and likely palatable to the majority of game actual developers in crazy. A huge improvement relative to the current pricing policy in effect (the status quo), no. A huge improvement relative to the previous incoming pricing policy, yes. But that's only the half of it. The other half is that Unity cannot be trusted to abide by its own terms of service. I don't need mental gymnastics to decide that Unity will never be palatable again. Unity's terms as of October 2022 included the line: > If material modifications are made to these Terms, Unity will endeavor to notify you of the modification. [1] But in April 2023, Unity silently rewrote the terms, and one of the changes was removing that self-obligation [2]. Ctrl-F for "notif" and you won't find a match. > I have a few friends who work on relatively medium-scale game development operations and every one of them is basically saying “oh thank god, we can work with this”. It's good that Unity decided not to screw your friends after all. But "oh thank god, we can work with this" suggests an aftertaste of dread. I don't make games, but if I did I would not want to rely on the company which gave me such dread. [1] https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/TermsOfService/blob/71654bf/Unity%20Software%20Additional%20Terms.md https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/TermsOfService/blob/71... [2] https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/TermsOfService/blob/master/Unity%20Software%20Additional%20Terms.md https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/TermsOfService/blob/ma... (which as of September 26, 2023 corresponds to https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/TermsOfService/blob/50329a6/Unity%20Software%20Additional%20Terms.md https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/TermsOfService/blob/50...)

rybosworld 3y ago

I don't see any comments in this thread that argue the new terms are worse than before. I also don't see any comments that argue the new terms aren't palatable. As far as I can tell, most of the discussion is to the effect of: "does a reversion to only slightly shitty pricing terms make up for initially trying to get away with super shitty terms?"

JohnFen 3y ago

> to not acknowledge that the new terms are genuinely a huge improvement I'll acknowledge that! But it doesn't matter. This is the second time that Unity retroactively changed the terms of their deal. That they removed the retroactive part is great, but that they've done it twice also indicates that it will happen again at some point in the future. So, for me, it doesn't matter in the slightest how favorable their new terms are. They've shown their true colors and they can't take that back. That's why I won't be buying any Unity-based games in the future. Unity is a bad actor, and I don't want to support their business.

hn_acker 3y ago

> The amount of mental gymnastics on display here (not to mention bloodthirstiness) to not acknowledge that the new terms are genuinely a huge improvement and likely palatable to the majority of game actual developers in crazy. A huge improvement relative to the current pricing policy in effect (the status quo), no. A huge improvement relative to the previous incoming pricing policy, yes. But that's only the half of it. The other half is that Unity cannot be trusted to abide by its own terms of service. I don't need mental gymnastics to decide that Unity will never be palatable again. Unity's terms as of October 2022 included the line: > If material modifications are made to these Terms, Unity will endeavor to notify you of the modification. [1] But in April 2023, Unity silently rewrote the terms, and one of the changes was removing that self-obligation [2]. Ctrl-F for "notif" and you won't find a match. > I have a few friends who work on relatively medium-scale game development operations and every one of them is basically saying “oh thank god, we can work with this”. It's good that Unity decided not to screw your friends after all. But "oh thank god, we can work with this" suggests an aftertaste of dread. I don't make games, but if I did I would not want to rely on the company which gave me such dread. [1] https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/TermsOfService/blob/71654bf/Unity%20Software%20Additional%20Terms.md https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/TermsOfService/blob/71... [2] https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/TermsOfService/blob/master/Unity%20Software%20Additional%20Terms.md https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/TermsOfService/blob/ma... (which as of September 26, 2023 corresponds to https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/TermsOfService/blob/50329a6/Unity%20Software%20Additional%20Terms.md https://github.com/Unity-Technologies/TermsOfService/blob/50...)