5 ms·

Tech layoffs are all but a thing of the past

36 points by mikece 3y ago

xena 3y ago
Read: more tech layoffs incoming
klyrs 3y ago
Almost every major tech company laid off a significant fraction of their staff this year. Numbers show the wave has cooled off, but let's not be optimistic about next year, when CEOs make their annual "do something incredible for profits, or lay off a bunch of people to cut expenses, or why not both" decision to lock in next year's bonus.
- nine_zeros 3y ago
  > CEOs make their annual "do something incredible for profits, or lay off a bunch of people to cut expenses, or why not both" decision to lock in next year's bonus. This is the reason why so much upper management appears so detached from actual work. They are under constant pressure to sell the next growth area (aka buzzword) to the CEO that cares about their own compensation not going down.
commandlinefan 3y ago
My conspiracy theory is that this is a concerted effort for RTO - once everybody's experienced six months of unemployment, used up all their savings and moved back in with their parents, going back to a daily commute won't seem so bad.
- fatfingerd 3y ago
  I doubt many people who up and left to desperately save money will go rent a new apartment within commuting distance of an unreliable employer. Perhaps there will be a total split in the job market as most look for remote jobs and relocation bonuses have to be perpetual to attract people in.
- Racing0461 3y ago
  i believe rto is then a concerted effort to keep real estate up in cities.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  > once everybody's experienced six months of unemployment, used up all their savings and moved back in with their parents, going back to a daily commute won't seem so bad. If you move back in with your parents and your expenses decline, why go back to the commute? If anything, you can be much more picky about the job you can take as you have unlimited runaway as long as your parents let you stay (and something like 50% of Millennials and Gen Z are moving/living with parents). https://archive.ph/fD4Bp https://archive.ph/fD4Bp | https://fortune.com/2023/09/26/millennials-gen-z-living-with-parents-losing-stigma/ https://fortune.com/2023/09/26/millennials-gen-z-living-with... ("Moving back in with your parents is so common now that it’s nearly lost its stigma") https://archive.ph/0E7r4 https://archive.ph/0E7r4 | https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-20/nearly-half-of-young-adults-are-living-back-home-with-parents https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-20/nearly-ha... ("Nearly Half of All Young Adults Live With Mom and Dad — and They Like It") https://archive.ph/xt7PH https://archive.ph/xt7PH | https://fortune.com/2022/10/24/gen-z-delays-homebuying-retirement-planning-for-lifetime-of-financial-instability/ https://fortune.com/2022/10/24/gen-z-delays-homebuying-retir... ("Gen Zers don’t think they’ll ever own a home, and are buckling up for long-term financial instability") Like the Chinese say, “lay flat.” If your life would've been "move out, work a few decades in a job you likely don't enjoy, eventually inherit parent's house at death", why not just skip the grind and live with them until they die, maximizing happiness in your best years if this is the environment these folks must operate in. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/12/job-unhappiness-is-at-a-staggering-all-time-high-according-to-gallup.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/12/job-unhappiness-is-at-a-stag... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tang_ping https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tang_ping
- oblio 3y ago
  It's a mix. RTO is also used to hide layoffs.
barryrandall 3y ago
Layoffs are always a thing of the past until the next quarter comes around.
waynesonfire 3y ago
now we wait and see if the reduced employee count armed with LLMs can be do all the necessary work.
- blurbleblurble 3y ago
  no need to wait to see that they can
oceanplexian 3y ago
I think the layoffs were a situation of "taking from one pocket and putting it into another". The number of experienced engineers didn't increase; a lot of them dropped out of the system. Temporarily they created some fear and panic and got some suckers to accept RTO, lower pay, or worse conditions, but you can't outrun business fundamentals. Software is eating the world and all these new technologies (AI, etc.) aren't "reducing the need for people", they are actually increasing it.
Ekaros 3y ago
If they do these layoffs to increase stock value. Who is actually buying on them? Some automated systems? As by now any actual trader so know it shouldn't affect anything... Or is it just purely general sentiment that everyone is playing on?
- gretch 3y ago
  Themselves. Literally a stock buy back. If you don’t have to pay employees, then you use that money to buy back stock instead. Thus the stock price goes up due to the denominator being smaller.
  - BizarroLand 3y ago
    And then if the stock price goes astronomically high for some reason, they split it, double the amount available and then sell it back out, generating money out of thin air.
d3w4s9 3y ago
Not so fast, let's wait half a year and see what happens.
snorrah 3y ago
unfortunate timing on this one. https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/09/28/tech-job-cut-layoff-covid-santa-clara-sunnyvale-morgan-hill-pleasanton/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/09/28/tech-job-cut-layoff-c...

36 points by mikece 3y ago

xena 3y ago

Read: more tech layoffs incoming

Almost every major tech company laid off a significant fraction of their staff this year. Numbers show the wave has cooled off, but let's not be optimistic about next year, when CEOs make their annual "do something incredible for profits, or lay off a bunch of people to cut expenses, or why not both" decision to lock in next year's bonus.

nine_zeros 3y ago
> CEOs make their annual "do something incredible for profits, or lay off a bunch of people to cut expenses, or why not both" decision to lock in next year's bonus. This is the reason why so much upper management appears so detached from actual work. They are under constant pressure to sell the next growth area (aka buzzword) to the CEO that cares about their own compensation not going down.

commandlinefan 3y ago

My conspiracy theory is that this is a concerted effort for RTO - once everybody's experienced six months of unemployment, used up all their savings and moved back in with their parents, going back to a daily commute won't seem so bad.

fatfingerd 3y ago
I doubt many people who up and left to desperately save money will go rent a new apartment within commuting distance of an unreliable employer. Perhaps there will be a total split in the job market as most look for remote jobs and relocation bonuses have to be perpetual to attract people in.
Racing0461 3y ago
i believe rto is then a concerted effort to keep real estate up in cities.
toomuchtodo 3y ago
> once everybody's experienced six months of unemployment, used up all their savings and moved back in with their parents, going back to a daily commute won't seem so bad. If you move back in with your parents and your expenses decline, why go back to the commute? If anything, you can be much more picky about the job you can take as you have unlimited runaway as long as your parents let you stay (and something like 50% of Millennials and Gen Z are moving/living with parents). https://archive.ph/fD4Bp https://archive.ph/fD4Bp | https://fortune.com/2023/09/26/millennials-gen-z-living-with-parents-losing-stigma/ https://fortune.com/2023/09/26/millennials-gen-z-living-with... ("Moving back in with your parents is so common now that it’s nearly lost its stigma") https://archive.ph/0E7r4 https://archive.ph/0E7r4 | https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-20/nearly-half-of-young-adults-are-living-back-home-with-parents https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-20/nearly-ha... ("Nearly Half of All Young Adults Live With Mom and Dad — and They Like It") https://archive.ph/xt7PH https://archive.ph/xt7PH | https://fortune.com/2022/10/24/gen-z-delays-homebuying-retirement-planning-for-lifetime-of-financial-instability/ https://fortune.com/2022/10/24/gen-z-delays-homebuying-retir... ("Gen Zers don’t think they’ll ever own a home, and are buckling up for long-term financial instability") Like the Chinese say, “lay flat.” If your life would've been "move out, work a few decades in a job you likely don't enjoy, eventually inherit parent's house at death", why not just skip the grind and live with them until they die, maximizing happiness in your best years if this is the environment these folks must operate in. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/12/job-unhappiness-is-at-a-staggering-all-time-high-according-to-gallup.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/12/job-unhappiness-is-at-a-stag... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tang_ping https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tang_ping
oblio 3y ago
It's a mix. RTO is also used to hide layoffs.

barryrandall 3y ago

Layoffs are always a thing of the past until the next quarter comes around.

waynesonfire 3y ago

now we wait and see if the reduced employee count armed with LLMs can be do all the necessary work.

blurbleblurble 3y ago
no need to wait to see that they can

oceanplexian 3y ago

I think the layoffs were a situation of "taking from one pocket and putting it into another". The number of experienced engineers didn't increase; a lot of them dropped out of the system. Temporarily they created some fear and panic and got some suckers to accept RTO, lower pay, or worse conditions, but you can't outrun business fundamentals. Software is eating the world and all these new technologies (AI, etc.) aren't "reducing the need for people", they are actually increasing it.

Ekaros 3y ago

If they do these layoffs to increase stock value. Who is actually buying on them? Some automated systems? As by now any actual trader so know it shouldn't affect anything... Or is it just purely general sentiment that everyone is playing on?

gretch 3y ago
Themselves. Literally a stock buy back. If you don’t have to pay employees, then you use that money to buy back stock instead. Thus the stock price goes up due to the denominator being smaller.
- BizarroLand 3y ago
  And then if the stock price goes astronomically high for some reason, they split it, double the amount available and then sell it back out, generating money out of thin air.

d3w4s9 3y ago

Not so fast, let's wait half a year and see what happens.

snorrah 3y ago

unfortunate timing on this one. https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/09/28/tech-job-cut-layoff-covid-santa-clara-sunnyvale-morgan-hill-pleasanton/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/09/28/tech-job-cut-layoff-c...