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As an American that has lived in Europe for nearly a decade now, I think you vastly underestimate the cultural differences between the two continents. I think t

As an American that has lived in Europe for nearly a decade now, I think you vastly underestimate the cultural differences between the two continents. I think the average middle class American would feel boxed in here, annoyed by the constant bureaucratic action required to get things done, and somewhat confused by the general lack of "can do" attitude. Moving here requires the ability to be a kind of permanent outsider who nonetheless is reminded by the dominance of his culture on every corner. It's a strange feeling and not one that I think most people are prepared to deal with. Edit, in case I was unclear: by "dominant," I mean that American culture is everywhere. McDonalds, Starbucks, Hollywood celebrities, Netflix shows, hamburgers, popular music, on and on. European youth culture is probably more influenced by American culture (via the Internet) than any other single source.

dauertewigkeit 3y ago
Your post is the most on point. The culture is way too different and especially for this community it should be obvious: the risk averse culture, the pessimism, the crabs in a bucket mentality and the relative lack of economic opportunities, especially in IT.
- fatfingerd 3y ago
  That sounds like Pennsylvania? Naturally there are key cities that you can't get on other continents and for many IT people that's usually San Francisco. But if you aren't actually in one of these key places it's often a matter of imagination that you think the place you are in is similar culturally, etc.
  - ipaddr 3y ago
    Amish country sure but Philadelphia accepts a level of risk europe wouldn't
    - fatfingerd 3y ago
      I suppose throwing dynamite from helicopters is a choice, but I still see Philadelphia as more of a living with risk place than a place that benefits from intelligent risk taking.
remyp 3y ago
> somewhat confused by the general lack of "can do" attitude I moved from the US to Europe a year ago and this rings so true it hurts. Sometimes requests (for anything from another glass of wine to government bureaucracy with big stakes) are simply met with a shrug and "nope, I can't do that." No solutions, no apology, they just go back to looking at their phone. This is nearly nonexistent in the US. In general, living in southern Europe it's a big adjustment to a culture where time essentially has no value, or at least is valued way less than in the US. Just wait another 30 minutes, why are you in such a hurry?
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  It’s strange you write this comment, but then in another acknowledge the US rat race culture and time poverty. Why are you in such a hurry? Europe is to live slower and enjoy life.
  - remyp 3y ago
    Because it's difficult to unlearn a lifetime of habit :)
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      I believe in you! Enjoy what you have. Slow down and smell the flowers.
- sloaken 3y ago
  I have 2 stories of the 'no can do' in Europe vs USA. Was on a business trip to Oslo Norway. Meeting involved a bunch of people, from around Europe. A couple of Finish guys joined my wife and me at a very nice restaurant. Not coat and tie, but definitely a major step up from a USA chain steakhouse. One of the Finns wanted a hamburger, but he was a big boy and was very hungry, it was 7 hours since we had lunch. So he asked that his hamburger be made with 2 patties of beef, not one, happy to pay whatever the price was. Waiter left, came back 15 minutes later and said sorry 'we cannot do that'. Excluding fast food, I cannot think of any place that would sell a hamburger in the USA that would not have accommodated my friend. 2nd event is the UK mobile phone service. At least my experience when you go to a brick and mortar store (not a kiosk), the manager there has the authority to do pretty much anything. Not literally, but they can get a lot accomplished if you need help. In the UK the people at the store do not know, and are not authorized to do anything beyond sell you a phone. And God forbid you want to terminate your service. Hours and hours later.... if you are lucky .... they will let you end your service (assuming contract is fully paid) in 2 months from now.
d_burfoot 3y ago
> I think you vastly underestimate the cultural differences between the two continents. On the contrary, I think the cultural differences are huge, and lead to an enormous advantage in health and quality of life for Europeans. As someone who hates bureaucracy, I can certainly see how many Americans would be infuriated by European culture in this area. But you have to balance these issues against enormous American problems like obesity, opioid addiction, suburban sprawl, poor government services, crime, the mental health crisis, racial tension, political polarization, etc.
- keiferski 3y ago
  A lot of these things are just as big of problems in parts of Europe. There are many other problems unique to Europe. Sorry but I don’t think going somewhere on vacation gives much insight to how it’s actually like living there.

dauertewigkeit 3y ago

Your post is the most on point. The culture is way too different and especially for this community it should be obvious: the risk averse culture, the pessimism, the crabs in a bucket mentality and the relative lack of economic opportunities, especially in IT.

fatfingerd 3y ago
That sounds like Pennsylvania? Naturally there are key cities that you can't get on other continents and for many IT people that's usually San Francisco. But if you aren't actually in one of these key places it's often a matter of imagination that you think the place you are in is similar culturally, etc.
- ipaddr 3y ago
  Amish country sure but Philadelphia accepts a level of risk europe wouldn't
  - fatfingerd 3y ago
    I suppose throwing dynamite from helicopters is a choice, but I still see Philadelphia as more of a living with risk place than a place that benefits from intelligent risk taking.

remyp 3y ago

> somewhat confused by the general lack of "can do" attitude I moved from the US to Europe a year ago and this rings so true it hurts. Sometimes requests (for anything from another glass of wine to government bureaucracy with big stakes) are simply met with a shrug and "nope, I can't do that." No solutions, no apology, they just go back to looking at their phone. This is nearly nonexistent in the US. In general, living in southern Europe it's a big adjustment to a culture where time essentially has no value, or at least is valued way less than in the US. Just wait another 30 minutes, why are you in such a hurry?

toomuchtodo 3y ago
It’s strange you write this comment, but then in another acknowledge the US rat race culture and time poverty. Why are you in such a hurry? Europe is to live slower and enjoy life.
- remyp 3y ago
  Because it's difficult to unlearn a lifetime of habit :)
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    I believe in you! Enjoy what you have. Slow down and smell the flowers.
sloaken 3y ago
I have 2 stories of the 'no can do' in Europe vs USA. Was on a business trip to Oslo Norway. Meeting involved a bunch of people, from around Europe. A couple of Finish guys joined my wife and me at a very nice restaurant. Not coat and tie, but definitely a major step up from a USA chain steakhouse. One of the Finns wanted a hamburger, but he was a big boy and was very hungry, it was 7 hours since we had lunch. So he asked that his hamburger be made with 2 patties of beef, not one, happy to pay whatever the price was. Waiter left, came back 15 minutes later and said sorry 'we cannot do that'. Excluding fast food, I cannot think of any place that would sell a hamburger in the USA that would not have accommodated my friend. 2nd event is the UK mobile phone service. At least my experience when you go to a brick and mortar store (not a kiosk), the manager there has the authority to do pretty much anything. Not literally, but they can get a lot accomplished if you need help. In the UK the people at the store do not know, and are not authorized to do anything beyond sell you a phone. And God forbid you want to terminate your service. Hours and hours later.... if you are lucky .... they will let you end your service (assuming contract is fully paid) in 2 months from now.

d_burfoot 3y ago

> I think you vastly underestimate the cultural differences between the two continents. On the contrary, I think the cultural differences are huge, and lead to an enormous advantage in health and quality of life for Europeans. As someone who hates bureaucracy, I can certainly see how many Americans would be infuriated by European culture in this area. But you have to balance these issues against enormous American problems like obesity, opioid addiction, suburban sprawl, poor government services, crime, the mental health crisis, racial tension, political polarization, etc.

keiferski 3y ago
A lot of these things are just as big of problems in parts of Europe. There are many other problems unique to Europe. Sorry but I don’t think going somewhere on vacation gives much insight to how it’s actually like living there.