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> We want women to shut up and stop telling us that there's a problem with how we behave... > As you can see I've got perfectly rational explanations for why I

> We want women to shut up and stop telling us that there's a problem with how we behave... > As you can see I've got perfectly rational explanations for why I'm so irritated by women calling out sexist behaviors. > I want them to stop calling things sexist so that I can stop worrying about their feelings. > I just thought it was funny that Dave said something that sounds like sex talk, and wanted all of you to know! And don't you know that men are discriminated against just as much as women? I honestly can't tell if you are being serious or just being very convincing at acting like an immature brat. Considering you're on HN, I'll make the assumption that you are in fact more mature than this, and suggest you update your comment to make it a tad more clear that you are in fact just mocking people that actually think this way. That being said, it's sad that I could actually see someone really believing this.

unalone 15y ago
I was worried about people thinking I meant what I said when I wrote it. Then I decided that maybe the fact that people could theoretically take it seriously was a good reason to keep it how it was.
- Jem 15y ago
  It certainly made me think - I'll even admit that for a moment my cursor was hovering over the down vote arrow. It's sad, but it made me think BECAUSE there are people who think like this (and I've seen similar serious responses here on HN.)
  - drhowarddrfine 15y ago
    Oh shutup.
    - Jem 15y ago
      Case in point?
    - pyre 15y ago
      Lighten up!
      - drhowarddrfine 15y ago
        Lighten up? I'm not the one pouting in the corner.
- neutronicus 15y ago
  > I was worried about people thinking I meant what I said when I wrote it. "Calling Out" is a pretty recognizable piece of social-justice cant. I think other social-justice types will probably pick up on it immediately.
- hobin 15y ago
  I thought you meant it. Then I realized I was on HN, and I got confused. Thank you for clarifying, anyway. ;)
- jasonlotito 15y ago
  No, I agree. I'm glad I assumed correctly. Still, I was more concerned the message would get lost in downvotes. What caught me was the specific wording used. Specifically, this caught my attention: > I'm so irritated by women calling out sexist behaviors For obvious reasons, this stands out. All things considered, good job.
batista 15y ago
That being said, it's sad that I could actually see someone really believing this. That being said, and this being the internet, do you realize how silly you look to other cultures that don't give a flying duck about those so-called issues, and can take a joke? (And it's not like people from those other cultures don't worry about the larger issues re: equality, sexism etc, it's that "that's what she said" it's NOT where they are at all). You wanna do something positive? How about doing something for the millions of homeless people in your own country? --now, THAT's a discrimination if I ever saw one. How come I see people tirelessly blogging about those non issues and never about those kind of things? According to the US Department of Housing and Urban Development, there were 643,067 sheltered and unsheltered homeless persons nationwide as of January 2009. Additionally, about 1.56 million people used an emergency shelter or a transitional housing program during the 12-month period between October 1, 2008 and September 30, 2009. A random joke (say, a picture of a girl in bikini is some presentation) is "sexism" and "prevents more women from going to programming conferences"? Well, not having a bloody house is social exclusion, and prevents homeless people for getting shelter, proper rest, care, running water, electricity, reduces chances of getting a job, and also prevents them from going to programming conferences. Men AND women. (Not that I take any offense with the woman writing the bot. She seems like she can take a joke fine, and she did a joke in response -- it's all those other people blowing non-issues out of proportion that get me). Prudes...
- unalone 15y ago
  Yet another common trope in gender discussions is this idea that people shouldn't complain about sexism because there are more important things to worry about. We are complex machines that are capable of worrying about multiple cultural issues at a time. This is an issue. If there are things you'd rather us focus on, write a blog post, start a thread, make something. Don't try and derail this one, because it's relevant to many, many people, and it's a serious issue in this industry.
  - batista 15y ago
    >Yet another common trope in gender discussions is this idea that people shouldn't complain about sexism because there are more important things to worry about. Haven't thought of it that way, but sounds like a reasonable general guideline: don't worry about minor things when there are important things that mess with your life and your society. Oh, and I see what you did there --by adding "sexism"--, whereas my comment was about issues like the "That's what she said" in the story and such, which I'd hardly call sexist at all. It's not like I said we don't have to worry about men and women not receiving equal pay, or about rape, or freedom of choice, etc, which would be REAL sexist issues to worry about. >We are complex machines that are capable of worrying about multiple cultural issues at a time. Really? That must be way every fifth post is about how to focus, how the "get things done", etc. Well, if we are "capable", we sure don't seem like it. Check those kinds of blogs: people that post on such things rarely post on more important issues. Besides, even if you are "capable of worrying about multiple cultural issues", by worrying about both trivial and important things at the same time, you confuse your priorities or get paralyzed. >Don't try and derail this one, because it's relevant to many, many people, and it's a serious issue in this industry. It's only a "serious issue" in that it's being discussed a lot. It's not a serious issue in its manifestation or it's consequences at all. As for women in IT, well, ever considered they just don't like it that much? It's not like being a man or a woman only affects your tastes towards some industry due to the sexism (or "sexism") in it. Besides possible differences in inherent tastes (due to evolutionary traits), society also shapes men and women differently. For example, women being given barbie dolls and men Lego by their parents might be a much more important reason for them not liking IT, than any sexism in the IT industry. When students pick up a university course, for example, they hardly have any idea about how the industry is. In my country at least, they don't have any idea at all --almost no one works as an internet or similar anywhere before graduating from university. Still, that doesn't prevent women/men applying to study IT in university being around 20:80. Other fields are Math, Medicine and Physics, which are like 50:50, and Biology, with is like 60:40. You think any of these has anything to do with the sexism in each industry? Like, male doctors are less sexist or something?

unalone 15y ago

I was worried about people thinking I meant what I said when I wrote it. Then I decided that maybe the fact that people could theoretically take it seriously was a good reason to keep it how it was.

Jem 15y ago
It certainly made me think - I'll even admit that for a moment my cursor was hovering over the down vote arrow. It's sad, but it made me think BECAUSE there are people who think like this (and I've seen similar serious responses here on HN.)
- drhowarddrfine 15y ago
  Oh shutup.
  - Jem 15y ago
    Case in point?
  - pyre 15y ago
    Lighten up!
    - drhowarddrfine 15y ago
      Lighten up? I'm not the one pouting in the corner.
neutronicus 15y ago
> I was worried about people thinking I meant what I said when I wrote it. "Calling Out" is a pretty recognizable piece of social-justice cant. I think other social-justice types will probably pick up on it immediately.
hobin 15y ago
I thought you meant it. Then I realized I was on HN, and I got confused. Thank you for clarifying, anyway. ;)
jasonlotito 15y ago
No, I agree. I'm glad I assumed correctly. Still, I was more concerned the message would get lost in downvotes. What caught me was the specific wording used. Specifically, this caught my attention: > I'm so irritated by women calling out sexist behaviors For obvious reasons, this stands out. All things considered, good job.

batista 15y ago

That being said, it's sad that I could actually see someone really believing this. That being said, and this being the internet, do you realize how silly you look to other cultures that don't give a flying duck about those so-called issues, and can take a joke? (And it's not like people from those other cultures don't worry about the larger issues re: equality, sexism etc, it's that "that's what she said" it's NOT where they are at all). You wanna do something positive? How about doing something for the millions of homeless people in your own country? --now, THAT's a discrimination if I ever saw one. How come I see people tirelessly blogging about those non issues and never about those kind of things? According to the US Department of Housing and Urban Development, there were 643,067 sheltered and unsheltered homeless persons nationwide as of January 2009. Additionally, about 1.56 million people used an emergency shelter or a transitional housing program during the 12-month period between October 1, 2008 and September 30, 2009. A random joke (say, a picture of a girl in bikini is some presentation) is "sexism" and "prevents more women from going to programming conferences"? Well, not having a bloody house is social exclusion, and prevents homeless people for getting shelter, proper rest, care, running water, electricity, reduces chances of getting a job, and also prevents them from going to programming conferences. Men AND women. (Not that I take any offense with the woman writing the bot. She seems like she can take a joke fine, and she did a joke in response -- it's all those other people blowing non-issues out of proportion that get me). Prudes...

unalone 15y ago
Yet another common trope in gender discussions is this idea that people shouldn't complain about sexism because there are more important things to worry about. We are complex machines that are capable of worrying about multiple cultural issues at a time. This is an issue. If there are things you'd rather us focus on, write a blog post, start a thread, make something. Don't try and derail this one, because it's relevant to many, many people, and it's a serious issue in this industry.
- batista 15y ago
  >Yet another common trope in gender discussions is this idea that people shouldn't complain about sexism because there are more important things to worry about. Haven't thought of it that way, but sounds like a reasonable general guideline: don't worry about minor things when there are important things that mess with your life and your society. Oh, and I see what you did there --by adding "sexism"--, whereas my comment was about issues like the "That's what she said" in the story and such, which I'd hardly call sexist at all. It's not like I said we don't have to worry about men and women not receiving equal pay, or about rape, or freedom of choice, etc, which would be REAL sexist issues to worry about. >We are complex machines that are capable of worrying about multiple cultural issues at a time. Really? That must be way every fifth post is about how to focus, how the "get things done", etc. Well, if we are "capable", we sure don't seem like it. Check those kinds of blogs: people that post on such things rarely post on more important issues. Besides, even if you are "capable of worrying about multiple cultural issues", by worrying about both trivial and important things at the same time, you confuse your priorities or get paralyzed. >Don't try and derail this one, because it's relevant to many, many people, and it's a serious issue in this industry. It's only a "serious issue" in that it's being discussed a lot. It's not a serious issue in its manifestation or it's consequences at all. As for women in IT, well, ever considered they just don't like it that much? It's not like being a man or a woman only affects your tastes towards some industry due to the sexism (or "sexism") in it. Besides possible differences in inherent tastes (due to evolutionary traits), society also shapes men and women differently. For example, women being given barbie dolls and men Lego by their parents might be a much more important reason for them not liking IT, than any sexism in the IT industry. When students pick up a university course, for example, they hardly have any idea about how the industry is. In my country at least, they don't have any idea at all --almost no one works as an internet or similar anywhere before graduating from university. Still, that doesn't prevent women/men applying to study IT in university being around 20:80. Other fields are Math, Medicine and Physics, which are like 50:50, and Biology, with is like 60:40. You think any of these has anything to do with the sexism in each industry? Like, male doctors are less sexist or something?