5 ms·

We have some decent evidence, though. The most innovative ideas in mathematics were discovered by mathematicians in their 20s and 30s, even though older tenure

We have some decent evidence, though. The most innovative ideas in mathematics were discovered by mathematicians in their 20s and 30s, even though older tenured mathematicians should in theory have more knowledge, experience, and time / resources for deep work.

fhd2 3y ago
I wonder to which degree this is because of the academic structures. As you get older you've got students to teach/support, a department to run, grants to apply for, ... And on top of that often a family to feed. This is true in many fields: The risks for going after something crazy instead of some iterative improvement / maintenance increase. Personally, not a mathematican, but I recently started investing in side projects again, the kind that aren't exactly a sure path to return on investment. The only reason why I can do this in-between earning enough to feed a family and family / household duties is because I started a consulting business where I work 3-4 days per week for clients. I don't think my brain at almost 40 is that different from when I was 20. The amount of money I need to earn and the amount of time I have is vastly different though.
- The_Colonel 3y ago
  > As you get older you've got students to teach/support, a department to run, grants to apply for I believe such problems are even more urgent in 20s and 30s. You're not established yet, you need to do a lot of things unrelated to your passion to make ends meet. Caring for young children is usually more time intensive than for older ones. By the 40s, academics have tenures and financial security. The children are older and don't require so much care. Yet statistically there's not much groundbreaking work appearing from older mathematicians. > The risks for going after something crazy instead of some iterative improvement / maintenance increase. That's not a big factor in mathematics where going after crazy things doesn't carry significant financial risks.
drewcoo 3y ago
Mathematics is an outlier. Possibly because "innovation" in math doesn't involve bringing anything new into a world larger than that of a very few ivory tower mathematicians. Consider instead Nobel laureates: https://www.nber.org/digest/dec05/great-inventions-come-later-life https://www.nber.org/digest/dec05/great-inventions-come-late...
- The_Colonel 3y ago
  > Mathematics is an outlier. Yes, but more illustrative of the innovation, because it's pure creativity, you don't need many resources apart from pen, paper, and time (at least historically that was the case). Which is very different from many other sciences where you often need high level access to expensive equipment or other resources, which you won't get right away, but typically after you prove your worth (which takes years).

fhd2 3y ago

I wonder to which degree this is because of the academic structures. As you get older you've got students to teach/support, a department to run, grants to apply for, ... And on top of that often a family to feed. This is true in many fields: The risks for going after something crazy instead of some iterative improvement / maintenance increase. Personally, not a mathematican, but I recently started investing in side projects again, the kind that aren't exactly a sure path to return on investment. The only reason why I can do this in-between earning enough to feed a family and family / household duties is because I started a consulting business where I work 3-4 days per week for clients. I don't think my brain at almost 40 is that different from when I was 20. The amount of money I need to earn and the amount of time I have is vastly different though.

The_Colonel 3y ago
> As you get older you've got students to teach/support, a department to run, grants to apply for I believe such problems are even more urgent in 20s and 30s. You're not established yet, you need to do a lot of things unrelated to your passion to make ends meet. Caring for young children is usually more time intensive than for older ones. By the 40s, academics have tenures and financial security. The children are older and don't require so much care. Yet statistically there's not much groundbreaking work appearing from older mathematicians. > The risks for going after something crazy instead of some iterative improvement / maintenance increase. That's not a big factor in mathematics where going after crazy things doesn't carry significant financial risks.

drewcoo 3y ago

Mathematics is an outlier. Possibly because "innovation" in math doesn't involve bringing anything new into a world larger than that of a very few ivory tower mathematicians. Consider instead Nobel laureates: https://www.nber.org/digest/dec05/great-inventions-come-later-life https://www.nber.org/digest/dec05/great-inventions-come-late...

The_Colonel 3y ago
> Mathematics is an outlier. Yes, but more illustrative of the innovation, because it's pure creativity, you don't need many resources apart from pen, paper, and time (at least historically that was the case). Which is very different from many other sciences where you often need high level access to expensive equipment or other resources, which you won't get right away, but typically after you prove your worth (which takes years).