4 ms·

In my opinion what will happen is old fashioned protectionism. Western governments are still kind of dumb but they're wisening up. The US for example does it

by oblio 3y ago

In my opinion what will happen is old fashioned protectionism. Western governments are still kind of dumb but they're wisening up. The US for example does it through incentives: if the car AND the batteries have been built in the US, the car is cheaper. Just the car was built in the US? Lower subsidy, more expensive car. Nothing built in the US? 0 subsidy, much more expensive car. The EU will probably do the same within max 5 years, European car brands are about to be wiped up if they don't, just like: * Nokia * Siemens * Ericsson * Alcatel * Sagem * ... etc were wiped out by Asian phone manufacturers.

scns 3y ago
Nokias phone business was destroyed by that manager they brought in from Microsoft. He held a speech where he called the company "a burning platform" on which they are standing. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2011/feb/09/nokia-burning-platform-memo-elop https://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2011/feb/09/noki...
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Nokia were already on a path of self-destruction before Elop was hired. Also, nobody forced them to hire Stephen Elop, it was their decision to hire someone totally unfit. As a company you bear the consequences of who you appoint as your CEO.
FirmwareBurner 3y ago
To be fair, only the consumer facing operations of those brands have been wiped out, same as with Motorola, but their enterprise/network-infrastructure businesses from Nokia, Siemens, Ericsson, Alcatel still exists, and Sagem is still in the military business (as part of Thales). However, the big issue is that those companies don't see much growth or sensible profit margins anymore compared to what US tech companies are raking in, fact reflected in their sweatshop salaries as well (I interviewed for Nokia and Ericsson a few years back). In a sad way they're a direct reflection of the EU economy: stagnation and lack of future prospects. Yes I know of ASML and German mittle-stand but they alone can't competitively support the entire EU economy the same way US tech companies do.
- oblio 3y ago
  > only the consumer facing operations of those brands have been wiped out So, like 90% of the income and profits for a hardware company?
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    Pretty much yes.
    - oblio 3y ago
      The is the "only" warranted? :-)
niclo 3y ago
> The EU will probably do the same within max 5 years, European car brands are about to be wiped up if they don't Currently chinese cars are perceived as super low quality and the only strong selling point they have is the price, as they had when Huawei, Xiaomi and other brands entered the smartphone market. If I look at BYD catalogue in the italian website I can see: - the Dolphin starting from about 36k€ when there's the Peugeot e2008 starting from 31k€ and FIAT 600 starting from 31k€ as well - the Atto 3 starting from about 42k€ when rumors say the Peugeot e3008 will start from about 46k€ - two higher end models which are perfectly matched by BMW offerings at the same price and with comparable performance, not even looking at other premium brands such as Audi or Mercedes I specifically made the comparison with BYD but I'm happy to give a look at other brands you could suggest. Even considering chinese carmakers pricing power and old school carmakers lagging behind, I honestly can't see anything disrupting here. ps: Asian phone manufacturers is much different from China phone manufacturers given that in EU all put together they barely reach Samsung market share. On the same note, let's not forget there are many established asian carmakers outside China ready to take their slice of the cake.
- oblio 3y ago
  > ps: Asian phone manufacturers is much different from China phone manufacturers given that in EU all put together they barely reach Samsung market share. Huawei was taking off like a rocket in Europe before the US kneecapped them. > Currently chinese cars are perceived as super low quality and the only strong selling point they have is the price, as they had when Huawei, Xiaomi and other brands entered the smartphone market. That's always step 1, exactly what Japan (60s, 80s) and Korea (90s, 00s) did. They all move up after a while. Japan, especially, smashed US car companies.
  - niclo 3y ago
    Yes of course, but today's japanese and korean cars are well renowned and considered top in class, what about Xiaomi and other chinese smartphone brands ? Severely lagging behind Apple and Samsung and price-to-quality ratio it's kinda meh, completely different evolution.

by oblio 3y ago

scns 3y ago

Nokias phone business was destroyed by that manager they brought in from Microsoft. He held a speech where he called the company "a burning platform" on which they are standing. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2011/feb/09/nokia-burning-platform-memo-elop https://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2011/feb/09/noki...

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
Nokia were already on a path of self-destruction before Elop was hired. Also, nobody forced them to hire Stephen Elop, it was their decision to hire someone totally unfit. As a company you bear the consequences of who you appoint as your CEO.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

To be fair, only the consumer facing operations of those brands have been wiped out, same as with Motorola, but their enterprise/network-infrastructure businesses from Nokia, Siemens, Ericsson, Alcatel still exists, and Sagem is still in the military business (as part of Thales). However, the big issue is that those companies don't see much growth or sensible profit margins anymore compared to what US tech companies are raking in, fact reflected in their sweatshop salaries as well (I interviewed for Nokia and Ericsson a few years back). In a sad way they're a direct reflection of the EU economy: stagnation and lack of future prospects. Yes I know of ASML and German mittle-stand but they alone can't competitively support the entire EU economy the same way US tech companies do.

oblio 3y ago
> only the consumer facing operations of those brands have been wiped out So, like 90% of the income and profits for a hardware company?
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Pretty much yes.
  - oblio 3y ago
    The is the "only" warranted? :-)

niclo 3y ago

> The EU will probably do the same within max 5 years, European car brands are about to be wiped up if they don't Currently chinese cars are perceived as super low quality and the only strong selling point they have is the price, as they had when Huawei, Xiaomi and other brands entered the smartphone market. If I look at BYD catalogue in the italian website I can see: - the Dolphin starting from about 36k€ when there's the Peugeot e2008 starting from 31k€ and FIAT 600 starting from 31k€ as well - the Atto 3 starting from about 42k€ when rumors say the Peugeot e3008 will start from about 46k€ - two higher end models which are perfectly matched by BMW offerings at the same price and with comparable performance, not even looking at other premium brands such as Audi or Mercedes I specifically made the comparison with BYD but I'm happy to give a look at other brands you could suggest. Even considering chinese carmakers pricing power and old school carmakers lagging behind, I honestly can't see anything disrupting here. ps: Asian phone manufacturers is much different from China phone manufacturers given that in EU all put together they barely reach Samsung market share. On the same note, let's not forget there are many established asian carmakers outside China ready to take their slice of the cake.

oblio 3y ago
> ps: Asian phone manufacturers is much different from China phone manufacturers given that in EU all put together they barely reach Samsung market share. Huawei was taking off like a rocket in Europe before the US kneecapped them. > Currently chinese cars are perceived as super low quality and the only strong selling point they have is the price, as they had when Huawei, Xiaomi and other brands entered the smartphone market. That's always step 1, exactly what Japan (60s, 80s) and Korea (90s, 00s) did. They all move up after a while. Japan, especially, smashed US car companies.
- niclo 3y ago
  Yes of course, but today's japanese and korean cars are well renowned and considered top in class, what about Xiaomi and other chinese smartphone brands ? Severely lagging behind Apple and Samsung and price-to-quality ratio it's kinda meh, completely different evolution.