7 ms·

BT confirms it's switching off 3G in UK from Jan next year

42 points by Doches 3y ago

daneel_w 3y ago
In line with most carriers across Europe. Sweden's native (and Nordic) carriers are also shutting 3G down during 2024.
Neil44 3y ago
Some longer term hardware is 3G, many car telematics, sat-navs etc for one.
- pbmonster 3y ago
  Most of those can drop down to 2G as well, can't they? And 2G won't be turned off for a while yet. Sure, it's a lot slower, but more reliable. And more then enough for a little traffic or weather data.
- alister 3y ago
  > many car telematics Well that's awesome in my opinion. Your older model car can no longer spy on you.
agjmills 3y ago
Does make me wonder what will happen to a lot of the Gas and Electricity Smart Meters that rely on 3G (will they fall back to 2G?)
- NeoTar 3y ago
  There are also plans for 2G to be switched off by 2033 referenced in the article.
- scrlk 3y ago
  From the CTO of the Data Communications Company (the organisation behind smart meter infrastructure in the UK): > Our second-generation meter solution is primarily based on the 3G network which has commitments through to 2033 based on our current contract, so this service remains mainly unaffected for the next 11 years. https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/news-events/2g-sunset-looking-into-the-future-of-connectivity/ https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/news-events/2g-sunset-looking-int...
- masfuerte 3y ago
  I read somewhere that electricity meters are switching to a scheme where they do low speed data transmission over the power cables and the data is collected at each substation. Gas uses plastic pipes now so I guess they are stuck with the phone network.
- melx 3y ago
  A very costly replacement?! The UK smart meter rollout is/was the most expensive among countries that went this route of smart meters. Or move up North (or Scotland) as "our", ekhm, "smart meters", are using a radio technology.
jacquesm 3y ago
I'm going to bet on an extension once they realize how much infra is still on 3G. Power, water, gas, sewage, lots of telemetry and control still uses it. That stuff has a design lifetime of 30 years or more and replacing it or parts of it is very costly.
- fguerraz 3y ago
  One of the main excuses for not deploying 5G at the moment is the alleged lack of access to "urban furniture". More precisely , they don't want to pay. Basically they want the people to pay for it with their taxes and the rack up the profits with contracts. I'm sure this has something to do with that, it would be cheaper for them to replace 3G infrastructure with 5G.
  - Nux 3y ago
    Number one reason 5G deployments are hampered in UK are the nimbys and the anti-5G crazies. Absolutely loads of council applications are turned down due to complaints from locals.. Some of which are not even local at all.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      Same here, the COVID thing really brought the madness to the surface, all kinds of complot theory pushers have found very fertile ground and suddenly there is an army of tin foil hatters prepared to commit crimes to put their worries to rest, such as burning mobile telecommunications infrastructure.
- helsinkiandrew 3y ago
  They've had a few years notice though. 2018: BT Aims to Switch Off 3G by 2022: https://www.lightreading.com/2g-3g-4g/bt-aims-to-switch-off-3g-by-2022 https://www.lightreading.com/2g-3g-4g/bt-aims-to-switch-off-...
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Yes, that's the point: it didn't work. It won't work again, right now (or in January). Until the cost is manageable, which I think we'll see in a decade or so. But right now I'd bet against it. They might actually go through with it in some remote location and claim victory, or, alternatively they might do it and then roll it back quietly. But 3G isn't going anywhere because some interests trump others. These messages are basically an attempt to convince their paymasters that they are running an efficient ship and to - hopefully - urge some 3G users to finally migrate. But lots of them will simply not be able to. Infrastructure is always longer lived than it is intended. Next time you're in a London tube station have a look at the cabling and signalling hardware and take a guess at when it was made. 3G gear is brand new by comparison and just as critical to the parties using it.
fguerraz 3y ago
They should think about switching on 5G as well. The UK being one of the worst countries for 5G deployment, with totally fake coverage (shows the 5G logo but connected to LTE). - "On average, 5G users spent 10.1% of the time connected to a 5G network." Ofcom, July 2023 https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/264600/mobile-matters-2023-report.pdf https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/264600/...
- have_faith 3y ago
  There's a busy area down the road from me that I consistently get a couple bars of 5G signal but the internet is unusable in a 200 metre radius. Sucks for all the local businesses around.
  - petercooper 3y ago
    Are you on a network that runs its own infrastructure or an MVNO? I've experienced the same thing a lot, especially on 4G in busy holiday spots, and have been told that apparently MVNO traffic is heavily deprioritised versus that of the primary carrier.
    - have_faith 3y ago
      I'm on O2. The "busy" area is just a normal mini high street. Nothing out of the ordinary.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  > with totally fake coverage In my region, maps shows full coverage with "excellent" outdoor signal, but I get at most two to three lines on my phone. It's basically a scam.
  - fguerraz 3y ago
    The amount of "bars" is irrelevant. You need to check if you're actually connected to 5G and that's very well hidden. (##4636## on android. Anything but "connected" for "NR State" means you're actually connected to 5G)
pixelpoet 3y ago
Meanwhile here in Germany we're still on Edge half the time on trains etc.
- bowsamic 3y ago
  Even here in central Hamburg there are a lot of dark spots
- looperhacks 3y ago
  Well, Germany has already shut down 3G two years ago, and LTE is just too new, you know? /s
erremerre 3y ago
In my experience with my phone Samsung S10e, and my provider being a reseller, I am able to use 4g and 3g (when available). And 3g provides better and superior coverage. With LTE, few times I am unable to browse or do anything because I have no signal, if I switch to 3g I immediately have 2 or 3 bars and can use it. Unfortunately, I can't force the phone to use 3g as I used to do, because more and more areas are now without any kind of 3g coverage. So I guess I will have just bad 4g signal, until I decide to upgrade a perfectly fine working phone with 5g support, and only then I will be able to discover if 5g is good as 3g or bad as 4g.
- Nux 3y ago
  The frequency 3G uses will be refarmed for 4G most likely. With any luck you won't have to upgrade. In fact the Samsung S10e does support LTE B8 900Mhz which is how you are probably getting your 3G now.
petercooper 3y ago
I hope this is coupled with an improvement in 4G and 5G coverage, then. I quite frequently find myself on 3G only in the UK. What I don't get is why you can't buy a plan that supports roaming on every major network. I'd pay double for a plan where my phone connects to whatever 4G or 5G is available regardless of provider, but the free market doesn't seem to have figured out this idea.
Lio 3y ago
Hopefully this will improve the privacy my old VW Golf by stopping the telemetry from working. I have a feeling that it's already stopped working as I don't think I'm getting traffic updates any more.

42 points by Doches 3y ago

daneel_w 3y ago

In line with most carriers across Europe. Sweden's native (and Nordic) carriers are also shutting 3G down during 2024.

Neil44 3y ago

Some longer term hardware is 3G, many car telematics, sat-navs etc for one.

pbmonster 3y ago
Most of those can drop down to 2G as well, can't they? And 2G won't be turned off for a while yet. Sure, it's a lot slower, but more reliable. And more then enough for a little traffic or weather data.
alister 3y ago
> many car telematics Well that's awesome in my opinion. Your older model car can no longer spy on you.

agjmills 3y ago

Does make me wonder what will happen to a lot of the Gas and Electricity Smart Meters that rely on 3G (will they fall back to 2G?)

NeoTar 3y ago
There are also plans for 2G to be switched off by 2033 referenced in the article.
scrlk 3y ago
From the CTO of the Data Communications Company (the organisation behind smart meter infrastructure in the UK): > Our second-generation meter solution is primarily based on the 3G network which has commitments through to 2033 based on our current contract, so this service remains mainly unaffected for the next 11 years. https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/news-events/2g-sunset-looking-into-the-future-of-connectivity/ https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/news-events/2g-sunset-looking-int...
masfuerte 3y ago
I read somewhere that electricity meters are switching to a scheme where they do low speed data transmission over the power cables and the data is collected at each substation. Gas uses plastic pipes now so I guess they are stuck with the phone network.
melx 3y ago
A very costly replacement?! The UK smart meter rollout is/was the most expensive among countries that went this route of smart meters. Or move up North (or Scotland) as "our", ekhm, "smart meters", are using a radio technology.

jacquesm 3y ago

I'm going to bet on an extension once they realize how much infra is still on 3G. Power, water, gas, sewage, lots of telemetry and control still uses it. That stuff has a design lifetime of 30 years or more and replacing it or parts of it is very costly.

fguerraz 3y ago
One of the main excuses for not deploying 5G at the moment is the alleged lack of access to "urban furniture". More precisely , they don't want to pay. Basically they want the people to pay for it with their taxes and the rack up the profits with contracts. I'm sure this has something to do with that, it would be cheaper for them to replace 3G infrastructure with 5G.
- Nux 3y ago
  Number one reason 5G deployments are hampered in UK are the nimbys and the anti-5G crazies. Absolutely loads of council applications are turned down due to complaints from locals.. Some of which are not even local at all.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Same here, the COVID thing really brought the madness to the surface, all kinds of complot theory pushers have found very fertile ground and suddenly there is an army of tin foil hatters prepared to commit crimes to put their worries to rest, such as burning mobile telecommunications infrastructure.
helsinkiandrew 3y ago
They've had a few years notice though. 2018: BT Aims to Switch Off 3G by 2022: https://www.lightreading.com/2g-3g-4g/bt-aims-to-switch-off-3g-by-2022 https://www.lightreading.com/2g-3g-4g/bt-aims-to-switch-off-...
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Yes, that's the point: it didn't work. It won't work again, right now (or in January). Until the cost is manageable, which I think we'll see in a decade or so. But right now I'd bet against it. They might actually go through with it in some remote location and claim victory, or, alternatively they might do it and then roll it back quietly. But 3G isn't going anywhere because some interests trump others. These messages are basically an attempt to convince their paymasters that they are running an efficient ship and to - hopefully - urge some 3G users to finally migrate. But lots of them will simply not be able to. Infrastructure is always longer lived than it is intended. Next time you're in a London tube station have a look at the cabling and signalling hardware and take a guess at when it was made. 3G gear is brand new by comparison and just as critical to the parties using it.

fguerraz 3y ago

They should think about switching on 5G as well. The UK being one of the worst countries for 5G deployment, with totally fake coverage (shows the 5G logo but connected to LTE). - "On average, 5G users spent 10.1% of the time connected to a 5G network." Ofcom, July 2023 https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/264600/mobile-matters-2023-report.pdf https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/264600/...

have_faith 3y ago
There's a busy area down the road from me that I consistently get a couple bars of 5G signal but the internet is unusable in a 200 metre radius. Sucks for all the local businesses around.
- petercooper 3y ago
  Are you on a network that runs its own infrastructure or an MVNO? I've experienced the same thing a lot, especially on 4G in busy holiday spots, and have been told that apparently MVNO traffic is heavily deprioritised versus that of the primary carrier.
  - have_faith 3y ago
    I'm on O2. The "busy" area is just a normal mini high street. Nothing out of the ordinary.
gumballindie 3y ago
> with totally fake coverage In my region, maps shows full coverage with "excellent" outdoor signal, but I get at most two to three lines on my phone. It's basically a scam.
- fguerraz 3y ago
  The amount of "bars" is irrelevant. You need to check if you're actually connected to 5G and that's very well hidden. (##4636## on android. Anything but "connected" for "NR State" means you're actually connected to 5G)

pixelpoet 3y ago

Meanwhile here in Germany we're still on Edge half the time on trains etc.

bowsamic 3y ago
Even here in central Hamburg there are a lot of dark spots
looperhacks 3y ago
Well, Germany has already shut down 3G two years ago, and LTE is just too new, you know? /s

erremerre 3y ago

In my experience with my phone Samsung S10e, and my provider being a reseller, I am able to use 4g and 3g (when available). And 3g provides better and superior coverage. With LTE, few times I am unable to browse or do anything because I have no signal, if I switch to 3g I immediately have 2 or 3 bars and can use it. Unfortunately, I can't force the phone to use 3g as I used to do, because more and more areas are now without any kind of 3g coverage. So I guess I will have just bad 4g signal, until I decide to upgrade a perfectly fine working phone with 5g support, and only then I will be able to discover if 5g is good as 3g or bad as 4g.

Nux 3y ago
The frequency 3G uses will be refarmed for 4G most likely. With any luck you won't have to upgrade. In fact the Samsung S10e does support LTE B8 900Mhz which is how you are probably getting your 3G now.

petercooper 3y ago

I hope this is coupled with an improvement in 4G and 5G coverage, then. I quite frequently find myself on 3G only in the UK. What I don't get is why you can't buy a plan that supports roaming on every major network. I'd pay double for a plan where my phone connects to whatever 4G or 5G is available regardless of provider, but the free market doesn't seem to have figured out this idea.

Lio 3y ago

Hopefully this will improve the privacy my old VW Golf by stopping the telemetry from working. I have a feeling that it's already stopped working as I don't think I'm getting traffic updates any more.