5 ms·

Betteridge's law of headlines: No, older people are not less innovative. I would also add that I really dislike clickbaity titles like this intending to be so

Betteridge's law of headlines: No, older people are not less innovative. I would also add that I really dislike clickbaity titles like this intending to be somewhat "controversial" to promote clicks.

hef19898 3y ago
I don't read articles when the title asks a question, I don't read substack nor medium.
dusted 3y ago
Good point, got me thinking.. No matter the headline, audience will filter by it.. In this case, the question form, might be the more neutral, where the alternatives would lead more to echo-chambering. The question is unresolved, so no matter if you want it to be true or not, you'll need to click and expose yourself to the arguments put forth. These are my thoughts on it, wrong as they may be: if the article was called: "Older people are not less innovative!" Then people who hate/dislike older people (as seem to be the current fashion seeing the amount of hatred directed towards our parents and grandparents generations) will dismiss it off the cuff and never be exposed to the arguments on why it might be the case. While people who wants this to be true won't read it either because they've had their existing opinion enforced, maybe based on different arguments/ideas. The question however, leads both those who wants it to be true and false to read.
- saberience 3y ago
  Yeah it's interesting... I really dislike titles of this form though and on principle usually refuse to read them, similarly to videos which have equally provocative titles. I would prefer something like: "A discussion of whether innovation varies with age" or "Analyzing the data on innovation by age group." For me, these imply thougtful analysis. When I see "clickbaity" titles I assume the content isn't worth reading (and is low quality) since the author needs to use emotional trickery to drive clicks, and usually this assumption is correct.
The_Colonel 3y ago
We have some decent evidence, though. The most innovative ideas in mathematics were discovered by mathematicians in their 20s and 30s, even though older tenured mathematicians should in theory have more knowledge, experience, and time / resources for deep work.
- fhd2 3y ago
  I wonder to which degree this is because of the academic structures. As you get older you've got students to teach/support, a department to run, grants to apply for, ... And on top of that often a family to feed. This is true in many fields: The risks for going after something crazy instead of some iterative improvement / maintenance increase. Personally, not a mathematican, but I recently started investing in side projects again, the kind that aren't exactly a sure path to return on investment. The only reason why I can do this in-between earning enough to feed a family and family / household duties is because I started a consulting business where I work 3-4 days per week for clients. I don't think my brain at almost 40 is that different from when I was 20. The amount of money I need to earn and the amount of time I have is vastly different though.
  - The_Colonel 3y ago
    > As you get older you've got students to teach/support, a department to run, grants to apply for I believe such problems are even more urgent in 20s and 30s. You're not established yet, you need to do a lot of things unrelated to your passion to make ends meet. Caring for young children is usually more time intensive than for older ones. By the 40s, academics have tenures and financial security. The children are older and don't require so much care. Yet statistically there's not much groundbreaking work appearing from older mathematicians. > The risks for going after something crazy instead of some iterative improvement / maintenance increase. That's not a big factor in mathematics where going after crazy things doesn't carry significant financial risks.
- drewcoo 3y ago
  Mathematics is an outlier. Possibly because "innovation" in math doesn't involve bringing anything new into a world larger than that of a very few ivory tower mathematicians. Consider instead Nobel laureates: https://www.nber.org/digest/dec05/great-inventions-come-later-life https://www.nber.org/digest/dec05/great-inventions-come-late...

Betteridge's law of headlines: No, older people are not less innovative. I would also add that I really dislike clickbaity titles like this intending to be somewhat "controversial" to promote clicks.

hef19898 3y ago

I don't read articles when the title asks a question, I don't read substack nor medium.

dusted 3y ago

Good point, got me thinking.. No matter the headline, audience will filter by it.. In this case, the question form, might be the more neutral, where the alternatives would lead more to echo-chambering. The question is unresolved, so no matter if you want it to be true or not, you'll need to click and expose yourself to the arguments put forth. These are my thoughts on it, wrong as they may be: if the article was called: "Older people are not less innovative!" Then people who hate/dislike older people (as seem to be the current fashion seeing the amount of hatred directed towards our parents and grandparents generations) will dismiss it off the cuff and never be exposed to the arguments on why it might be the case. While people who wants this to be true won't read it either because they've had their existing opinion enforced, maybe based on different arguments/ideas. The question however, leads both those who wants it to be true and false to read.

saberience 3y ago
Yeah it's interesting... I really dislike titles of this form though and on principle usually refuse to read them, similarly to videos which have equally provocative titles. I would prefer something like: "A discussion of whether innovation varies with age" or "Analyzing the data on innovation by age group." For me, these imply thougtful analysis. When I see "clickbaity" titles I assume the content isn't worth reading (and is low quality) since the author needs to use emotional trickery to drive clicks, and usually this assumption is correct.

The_Colonel 3y ago

We have some decent evidence, though. The most innovative ideas in mathematics were discovered by mathematicians in their 20s and 30s, even though older tenured mathematicians should in theory have more knowledge, experience, and time / resources for deep work.

fhd2 3y ago
I wonder to which degree this is because of the academic structures. As you get older you've got students to teach/support, a department to run, grants to apply for, ... And on top of that often a family to feed. This is true in many fields: The risks for going after something crazy instead of some iterative improvement / maintenance increase. Personally, not a mathematican, but I recently started investing in side projects again, the kind that aren't exactly a sure path to return on investment. The only reason why I can do this in-between earning enough to feed a family and family / household duties is because I started a consulting business where I work 3-4 days per week for clients. I don't think my brain at almost 40 is that different from when I was 20. The amount of money I need to earn and the amount of time I have is vastly different though.
- The_Colonel 3y ago
  > As you get older you've got students to teach/support, a department to run, grants to apply for I believe such problems are even more urgent in 20s and 30s. You're not established yet, you need to do a lot of things unrelated to your passion to make ends meet. Caring for young children is usually more time intensive than for older ones. By the 40s, academics have tenures and financial security. The children are older and don't require so much care. Yet statistically there's not much groundbreaking work appearing from older mathematicians. > The risks for going after something crazy instead of some iterative improvement / maintenance increase. That's not a big factor in mathematics where going after crazy things doesn't carry significant financial risks.
drewcoo 3y ago
Mathematics is an outlier. Possibly because "innovation" in math doesn't involve bringing anything new into a world larger than that of a very few ivory tower mathematicians. Consider instead Nobel laureates: https://www.nber.org/digest/dec05/great-inventions-come-later-life https://www.nber.org/digest/dec05/great-inventions-come-late...