5 ms·

If people are dumb enough to consentually waste time and money on casinos, they deserve to lose their time and money. Some might say the government should inter

If people are dumb enough to consentually waste time and money on casinos, they deserve to lose their time and money. Some might say the government should intervene; I personally don't care.

tetris11 3y ago
If the main audience is the uninformed or the desperate, isn't that just predatory behaviour
efitz 3y ago
In a casino, you know what you’re there for and what you’re up against. Gaming commissions have curbed many of the worst abuses with inspections, posted odds, etc. With mobile gaming you have a free for all that is intentionally exploiting the same neuroanatomy of addiction, but it’s wrapped up in pretty pixels and you can do it anywhere, privately. The industry is too big for gaming commission type controls to work. I think that mobile game monetization is populated by morally deficient actors and we should consider banning the whole thing.
- anonymous_sorry 3y ago
  In a meatspace casino, if someone shows you 4 face down cards, asks you to pick one, and then turns them all up to reveal 3 prizes and 1 "you lose" card, you can be fairly sure you had a 25% chance of losing. If the croupier used sleight of hand or secret e-ink cards to turn your card into the "you lose" card after you'd picked it, that would be fraud. The dark patterns and dopamine manipulation are bad enough, but isn't it fraud in this case? They're using a visual metaphor that is a straight-up lie.
  - meheleventyone 3y ago
    In that specific case sure, but Casino slot machines do a loooooooot to present distorted odds.
    - kawhah 3y ago
      But they do it within, often, quite tight regulation on game mechanics. People compare loot boxes to slot machines, but often loot boxes are allowed to be much more manipulative than would be allowed for a casino slot machine in many jurisdictions. For example, slots can juice the number of near misses (two cherries, and the third reel has a cherry that's just offcenter), compared to what would arise naturally if the reels were independent. But they might not be allowed to vastly increase the likelihood of near misses just as the player gets to the last few spins before inserting more cash (each spin has to be essentially the same game). Mobile game monetization does stuff like this all the time.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
keithalewis 3y ago
Do you mean people should be held personally accountable for their actions? Next thing you know we might be living in a country full of responsible citizens. /s
- pjc50 3y ago
  People probably should be held personally responsible for defrauding punters, yes.
- ehnto 3y ago
  They are accountable, they lose their money just like you'd expect. But I don't think we should let companies get away with exploiting people either. They have the upper hand, when it comes to exploiting psychology of the everyman.
  - keithalewis 3y ago
    Like advertisers do? Every day. All day long. We might be in agreement about the pernicious effect those have on society. Education is the antidote, not more feckless laws.
peterlk 3y ago
> If people are dumb enough to consentually waste time and money on casinos, they deserve to lose their time and money. I find this to be a very naive perspective. It’s not how addiction works, and even people who want to stop sometimes cannot. And even if you buy into the belief that we shouldn’t help them, what about their kids? What about the communities around them that are worse for having addicts who are pouring money from their jobs into a black hole? > I personally don't care. I’m sorry to hear that, and I hope you can change your mind one day. We’re all going to die one day, and life is better if we care about each other
- spondylosaurus 3y ago
  IRL casinos employ all kinds of tactics to get people in the door, too. Cheap food, "free" gifts, all in the hopes that you'll cave and start gambling once you're in. And then they have their claws in you.
  - Ensorceled 3y ago
    Yes. IRL casinos are also bad.
  - tetris11 3y ago
    Everybody and their dog has a vice of some kind. If casinos knew what your vice was, they would serve it up to you with a pretty bow and tell you that the first hit is free.
squeaky-clean 3y ago
One problem is a lot of those people spending that money (or should I say their parents money) are not old enough to be allowed into a casino or otherwise gamble. But since it's a reward of bytes and not dollars it's currently legally okay to take advantage of a child the way a casino takes advantage of adults.

If people are dumb enough to consentually waste time and money on casinos, they deserve to lose their time and money. Some might say the government should intervene; I personally don't care.

tetris11 3y ago

If the main audience is the uninformed or the desperate, isn't that just predatory behaviour

efitz 3y ago

In a casino, you know what you’re there for and what you’re up against. Gaming commissions have curbed many of the worst abuses with inspections, posted odds, etc. With mobile gaming you have a free for all that is intentionally exploiting the same neuroanatomy of addiction, but it’s wrapped up in pretty pixels and you can do it anywhere, privately. The industry is too big for gaming commission type controls to work. I think that mobile game monetization is populated by morally deficient actors and we should consider banning the whole thing.

anonymous_sorry 3y ago
In a meatspace casino, if someone shows you 4 face down cards, asks you to pick one, and then turns them all up to reveal 3 prizes and 1 "you lose" card, you can be fairly sure you had a 25% chance of losing. If the croupier used sleight of hand or secret e-ink cards to turn your card into the "you lose" card after you'd picked it, that would be fraud. The dark patterns and dopamine manipulation are bad enough, but isn't it fraud in this case? They're using a visual metaphor that is a straight-up lie.
- meheleventyone 3y ago
  In that specific case sure, but Casino slot machines do a loooooooot to present distorted odds.
  - kawhah 3y ago
    But they do it within, often, quite tight regulation on game mechanics. People compare loot boxes to slot machines, but often loot boxes are allowed to be much more manipulative than would be allowed for a casino slot machine in many jurisdictions. For example, slots can juice the number of near misses (two cherries, and the third reel has a cherry that's just offcenter), compared to what would arise naturally if the reels were independent. But they might not be allowed to vastly increase the likelihood of near misses just as the player gets to the last few spins before inserting more cash (each spin has to be essentially the same game). Mobile game monetization does stuff like this all the time.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

keithalewis 3y ago

Do you mean people should be held personally accountable for their actions? Next thing you know we might be living in a country full of responsible citizens. /s

pjc50 3y ago
People probably should be held personally responsible for defrauding punters, yes.
ehnto 3y ago
They are accountable, they lose their money just like you'd expect. But I don't think we should let companies get away with exploiting people either. They have the upper hand, when it comes to exploiting psychology of the everyman.
- keithalewis 3y ago
  Like advertisers do? Every day. All day long. We might be in agreement about the pernicious effect those have on society. Education is the antidote, not more feckless laws.

peterlk 3y ago

> If people are dumb enough to consentually waste time and money on casinos, they deserve to lose their time and money. I find this to be a very naive perspective. It’s not how addiction works, and even people who want to stop sometimes cannot. And even if you buy into the belief that we shouldn’t help them, what about their kids? What about the communities around them that are worse for having addicts who are pouring money from their jobs into a black hole? > I personally don't care. I’m sorry to hear that, and I hope you can change your mind one day. We’re all going to die one day, and life is better if we care about each other

spondylosaurus 3y ago
IRL casinos employ all kinds of tactics to get people in the door, too. Cheap food, "free" gifts, all in the hopes that you'll cave and start gambling once you're in. And then they have their claws in you.
- Ensorceled 3y ago
  Yes. IRL casinos are also bad.
- tetris11 3y ago
  Everybody and their dog has a vice of some kind. If casinos knew what your vice was, they would serve it up to you with a pretty bow and tell you that the first hit is free.

squeaky-clean 3y ago

One problem is a lot of those people spending that money (or should I say their parents money) are not old enough to be allowed into a casino or otherwise gamble. But since it's a reward of bytes and not dollars it's currently legally okay to take advantage of a child the way a casino takes advantage of adults.