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Bad faith interpretation. Clearly there are benefits to having a parent dedicated solely to child rearing. I do not think a daycare is the optimal environment f

Bad faith interpretation. Clearly there are benefits to having a parent dedicated solely to child rearing. I do not think a daycare is the optimal environment for child rearing. The issue here is not women's rights but the responsibility we have for our children.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> Bad faith interpretation Sorry, I am having trouble finding a gentler parsing of "we went through this already, it halved wages and made single income households a luxury." To what does this refer to if not women entering the labour force? > do not think a daycare is the optimal environment for child rearing I don't either. But the choice isn't caring parents or daycare. It's the number of parents who feel forced by the cost of childcare into being reluctant parents. Or single parents in economic insecurity, or worse, forced negligence.
- ramblenode 3y ago
  > It's the number of parents who feel forced by the cost of childcare into being reluctant parents. If childcare is such a significant cost that a family would make the economically rational decision to forgo the potential income of one parent, then the work of a stay-at-home parent is economically valuable, and moving them into the wage economy would not increase overall economic productivity (your original contention). > Sorry, I am having trouble finding a gentler parsing of "we went through this already, it halved wages and made single income households a luxury." To what does this refer to if not women entering the labour force? What I believe the parent is referring to is the lack of change in household wealth from a time when most households had a single earner to now when most have two full-time earners. Household wealth has remained stagnant for decades despite more overall hours being worked by parents. The gains from increased labor force participation have been eaten by higher costs and stagnant wages. More money is moving but the average family hasn't seen their wealth increase.
- rayiner 3y ago
  > what does this refer to if not women entering the labour force? It was a reference to women having to enter the workforce due to inflation. Only a little over half of women want to work outside the home: https://news.gallup.com/poll/267737/record-high-women-prefer-working-homemaking.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/267737/record-high-women-prefer.... For women with children under 18, only 45% want to work while 50% want to be homemakers. The fact we’re talking about “universal childcare” while ignoring the equally large if not larger demand women have for staying at home shows our warped priorities. Instead of universal childcare, we should just pay families for children and let them decide whether to use the money for childcare or to enable one parent to stay home.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    > The fact we’re talking about “universal childcare” while ignoring the equally large if not larger demand women have for staying at home shows our warped priorities. Instead of universal childcare, we should just pay families for children and let them decide whether to use the money for childcare or to enable one parent to stay home. It would be interesting to see a direct cash transfer longitudinal experiment where you pay families for a parent to stay home and provide care for childrearing vs universal childcare, to see what that does to fertility rates and wellbeing of both care provider parent and the children being raised. It seems so incredibly silly and shortsighted to be offering up free childcare to enable a parent to work when they could be working at home (if they choose!) raising their kid(s).
    - rayiner 3y ago
      At the very least it seems shortsighted to pay for a different person to take care of the kid when the parent wants to stay home and take care of the kid himself or herself.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Instead of universal childcare, we should just pay families for children This is fine, as long as it’s cash and not a tax credit. I always imagined a universal childcare program being administered by states to be given a block grant by Washington. Most states would simply offer vouches/credits. Some would want to run it themselves. But in no case would the federal government be opening direct care—that is simply unprecedented.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> Bad faith interpretation Sorry, I am having trouble finding a gentler parsing of "we went through this already, it halved wages and made single income households a luxury." To what does this refer to if not women entering the labour force? > do not think a daycare is the optimal environment for child rearing I don't either. But the choice isn't caring parents or daycare. It's the number of parents who feel forced by the cost of childcare into being reluctant parents. Or single parents in economic insecurity, or worse, forced negligence.

ramblenode 3y ago
> It's the number of parents who feel forced by the cost of childcare into being reluctant parents. If childcare is such a significant cost that a family would make the economically rational decision to forgo the potential income of one parent, then the work of a stay-at-home parent is economically valuable, and moving them into the wage economy would not increase overall economic productivity (your original contention). > Sorry, I am having trouble finding a gentler parsing of "we went through this already, it halved wages and made single income households a luxury." To what does this refer to if not women entering the labour force? What I believe the parent is referring to is the lack of change in household wealth from a time when most households had a single earner to now when most have two full-time earners. Household wealth has remained stagnant for decades despite more overall hours being worked by parents. The gains from increased labor force participation have been eaten by higher costs and stagnant wages. More money is moving but the average family hasn't seen their wealth increase.
rayiner 3y ago
> what does this refer to if not women entering the labour force? It was a reference to women having to enter the workforce due to inflation. Only a little over half of women want to work outside the home: https://news.gallup.com/poll/267737/record-high-women-prefer-working-homemaking.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/267737/record-high-women-prefer.... For women with children under 18, only 45% want to work while 50% want to be homemakers. The fact we’re talking about “universal childcare” while ignoring the equally large if not larger demand women have for staying at home shows our warped priorities. Instead of universal childcare, we should just pay families for children and let them decide whether to use the money for childcare or to enable one parent to stay home.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  > The fact we’re talking about “universal childcare” while ignoring the equally large if not larger demand women have for staying at home shows our warped priorities. Instead of universal childcare, we should just pay families for children and let them decide whether to use the money for childcare or to enable one parent to stay home. It would be interesting to see a direct cash transfer longitudinal experiment where you pay families for a parent to stay home and provide care for childrearing vs universal childcare, to see what that does to fertility rates and wellbeing of both care provider parent and the children being raised. It seems so incredibly silly and shortsighted to be offering up free childcare to enable a parent to work when they could be working at home (if they choose!) raising their kid(s).
  - rayiner 3y ago
    At the very least it seems shortsighted to pay for a different person to take care of the kid when the parent wants to stay home and take care of the kid himself or herself.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Instead of universal childcare, we should just pay families for children This is fine, as long as it’s cash and not a tax credit. I always imagined a universal childcare program being administered by states to be given a block grant by Washington. Most states would simply offer vouches/credits. Some would want to run it themselves. But in no case would the federal government be opening direct care—that is simply unprecedented.