6 ms·

Semi-related tangent: During the early 1990's I developed a star chart and ephemeris for the (momentarily) fashionable Windows Mobile platform called "Pocket St

Semi-related tangent: During the early 1990's I developed a star chart and ephemeris for the (momentarily) fashionable Windows Mobile platform called "Pocket Stars" that calculated one's geographical position from three or more sextant observations, mainly as backup for offshore sailors should their GPS system fail. For reasons I still can't fathom, a contractor for the Israeli military purchased many copies, apparently so their tanks and troops could remain oriented after all other electronic systems failed. My 15 minutes of Dr. Strangelove entanglement.

verandaguy 3y ago
I wasn’t around for the 90s edition of windows phone (at least not enough to understand any of the tech) — i guess for lack of a camera and compass +gyro, would the observations be done out of band and just put into a form?
- raducu 3y ago
  >I wasn’t around for the 90s edition of windows phone I was ... and worked on mobile apps and windows CE. I proposed an app like Tinder back then, but management decided there was no market for it. I guess execution is everything.
  - swagempire 3y ago
    Timing? Tinder launched in 2012...
- jaybo_nomad 3y ago
  Correction to parent post: Pocket Stars and Windows Mobile were developed in early 2000s, not 1990s.
cperciva 3y ago
For reasons I still can't fathom, a contractor for the Israeli military purchased many copies, apparently so their tanks and troops could remain oriented after all other electronic systems failed. Possibly in case of EMP attack?
- uoaei 3y ago
  For an app? Running on an electronic device?
  - pmontra 3y ago
    If you keep that device off and shielded it should survive the attack. Then you switch it on. Power should come from the tank, plus the internal battery for how long it lasts. If the tank can't power on after that attack it's useless anyway.
- spacebanana7 3y ago
  Their threat model is more likely about GPS jamming or other more vanilla electronic warfare techniques.
- jonathankoren 3y ago
  EMPs are a fantasy. Absolutely and unreservedly a complete fantasy. ZERO have ever been tested, and there’s literally a better use for a nuclear warhead. Not only is it a a completely hypothetical attack, it would look identical to a normal nuclear ICBM attack, and absolutely would result in a traditional retaliatory attack. Why would anyone trade an EMP for all their cities? Literally doesn’t make sense. No one in the nuclear arms control world takes it seriously. It’s a boogeyman for defense contractors and grifters, but I repeat myself. All that said, GPS denial is a very real thing, and has been repeatedly demonstrated in an operational context. It’s relatively trivial to do. You just need a regular ground based antenna, and not a particular strong transmitter because satellite signals are weak. Just broadcast a different timing signal and voilà! You now tricked someone into thinking they’re 50 miles away from where they really are. https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-overrated-threat-from-electromagnetic-pulses-46e92c3efeb9 https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-overrated-threat-from-e... https://www.c4isrnet.com/opinion/2022/07/22/why-isnt-russia-jamming-gps-harder-in-ukraine/ https://www.c4isrnet.com/opinion/2022/07/22/why-isnt-russia-...
  - orbital-decay 3y ago
    >ZERO have ever been tested Wait what? There were specific nuclear EMP tests. And sure, in any realistic nuclear war scenario EMP is just an unpredictable byproduct like your link says, but that doesn't make it fantasy I believe?
jonathankoren 3y ago
There was an article from several years ago where the US Coast Guard was teaching US Navy personnel how to do celestial navigation, since this was lost institutional knowledge in the USN but retained in the USCG. The purpose was for navigation in GPS denied areas. https://slate.com/technology/2015/10/u-s-naval-academy-reinstates-celestial-navigation-education.html https://slate.com/technology/2015/10/u-s-naval-academy-reins...
2rsf 3y ago
> For reasons I still can't fathom, a contractor for the Israeli military purchased many copies The Arrow 3 missile uses a star tracker, maybe previous generations or other missiles used those as well.
jcpham2 3y ago
I used Pocket Stars on Windows Mobile during it's brief tenure of existence on this planet; thanks.
glonq 3y ago
I think you mean "For reasons I still can't fathom, a contractor for the Israeli military decided to use Windows Mobile" ;) j/k; I'm [almost] not ashamed to admit that I also developed for WinMo once upon a time.

verandaguy 3y ago

I wasn’t around for the 90s edition of windows phone (at least not enough to understand any of the tech) — i guess for lack of a camera and compass +gyro, would the observations be done out of band and just put into a form?

raducu 3y ago
>I wasn’t around for the 90s edition of windows phone I was ... and worked on mobile apps and windows CE. I proposed an app like Tinder back then, but management decided there was no market for it. I guess execution is everything.
- swagempire 3y ago
  Timing? Tinder launched in 2012...
jaybo_nomad 3y ago
Correction to parent post: Pocket Stars and Windows Mobile were developed in early 2000s, not 1990s.

cperciva 3y ago

For reasons I still can't fathom, a contractor for the Israeli military purchased many copies, apparently so their tanks and troops could remain oriented after all other electronic systems failed. Possibly in case of EMP attack?

uoaei 3y ago
For an app? Running on an electronic device?
- pmontra 3y ago
  If you keep that device off and shielded it should survive the attack. Then you switch it on. Power should come from the tank, plus the internal battery for how long it lasts. If the tank can't power on after that attack it's useless anyway.
spacebanana7 3y ago
Their threat model is more likely about GPS jamming or other more vanilla electronic warfare techniques.
jonathankoren 3y ago
EMPs are a fantasy. Absolutely and unreservedly a complete fantasy. ZERO have ever been tested, and there’s literally a better use for a nuclear warhead. Not only is it a a completely hypothetical attack, it would look identical to a normal nuclear ICBM attack, and absolutely would result in a traditional retaliatory attack. Why would anyone trade an EMP for all their cities? Literally doesn’t make sense. No one in the nuclear arms control world takes it seriously. It’s a boogeyman for defense contractors and grifters, but I repeat myself. All that said, GPS denial is a very real thing, and has been repeatedly demonstrated in an operational context. It’s relatively trivial to do. You just need a regular ground based antenna, and not a particular strong transmitter because satellite signals are weak. Just broadcast a different timing signal and voilà! You now tricked someone into thinking they’re 50 miles away from where they really are. https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-overrated-threat-from-electromagnetic-pulses-46e92c3efeb9 https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-overrated-threat-from-e... https://www.c4isrnet.com/opinion/2022/07/22/why-isnt-russia-jamming-gps-harder-in-ukraine/ https://www.c4isrnet.com/opinion/2022/07/22/why-isnt-russia-...
- orbital-decay 3y ago
  >ZERO have ever been tested Wait what? There were specific nuclear EMP tests. And sure, in any realistic nuclear war scenario EMP is just an unpredictable byproduct like your link says, but that doesn't make it fantasy I believe?

jonathankoren 3y ago

There was an article from several years ago where the US Coast Guard was teaching US Navy personnel how to do celestial navigation, since this was lost institutional knowledge in the USN but retained in the USCG. The purpose was for navigation in GPS denied areas. https://slate.com/technology/2015/10/u-s-naval-academy-reinstates-celestial-navigation-education.html https://slate.com/technology/2015/10/u-s-naval-academy-reins...

2rsf 3y ago

> For reasons I still can't fathom, a contractor for the Israeli military purchased many copies The Arrow 3 missile uses a star tracker, maybe previous generations or other missiles used those as well.

jcpham2 3y ago

I used Pocket Stars on Windows Mobile during it's brief tenure of existence on this planet; thanks.

glonq 3y ago

I think you mean "For reasons I still can't fathom, a contractor for the Israeli military decided to use Windows Mobile" ;) j/k; I'm [almost] not ashamed to admit that I also developed for WinMo once upon a time.