4 ms·

I think "self-optimize" is the wrong term to focus on. Imo, it's more about self-compassion / a more personal version of "psychological safety." Anecdotally, a

I think "self-optimize" is the wrong term to focus on. Imo, it's more about self-compassion / a more personal version of "psychological safety." Anecdotally, a few years ago I made a decision to run with my (ADHD driven) impulses when deciding what to spend my time on. It was difficult to let go, but I decided to let myself just fall behind with projects / work for a year or two (or until I was fired.) Long term, the benefits have far outweighed any downsides. I actually accomplish things without burning out now, and the drastic reduction in burnout has meant that I get much more done in general (work, side projects, life, etc.) Ultimately, worrying about success, failure, self-control, etc, seem to be fairly self-defeating.

jakeinspace 3y ago
If you don’t mind, I’d love to hear a bit more. I feel like I’ve been pushing hard against my ADHD tendencies as well, very curious what it means and looks like to give in and flourish.
- appleiigs 3y ago
  Working from home really helped me. I use the Tomato/Pomodoro technique, but backwards. I let myself be distracted for 10 minutes first, then I work for 20 mins after. Distractions such as laundry, reading news come first, which relieves the feeling that I need to do something else, calms me down. Then I can do 1 work task for 20 mins. Then when I feel restless again I spend another 10 mins doing what my mind wants (eg. brush dog)… then back to 20 mins of work. For me the point of the timer is to snap me out of the distraction or I’ll be on Hacker News for an hour.
  - danShumway 3y ago
    > For me the point of the timer is to snap me out of the distraction or I’ll be on Hacker News for an hour. Timers are such a big deal with ADHD. It's not news to anyone that people with ADHD suffer from time blindness, but even knowing that I'm constantly underestimating how much it affects me. Even if I'm not doing a scheduled task, having something that regularly beeps or vibrates to shake me out of whatever I'm focusing on so I can ask, "how am I feeling, what am I doing, when was the last time I drank water, have I eaten today, what should I be doing right now" is very helpful -- at least until the brain learns to tune out the beep and you have to find a new sound. I highly recommend people having trouble with focusing or distracting to get a cheap wristwatch or some kind of timer and setting it to beep or vibrate every 10-30 minutes. Doesn't solve every problem, but helps a lot with staying just a bit more rooted in reality.
    - dpig_ 3y ago
      I live and die by the timers on my watch (whenever I can remember to set them).
      - scns 3y ago
        I set the Calendar from Simple Mobile Tools to repeat Notification till discarded. That way i have to switch it off and look what needs to be done.
  - brailsafe 3y ago
    I've been reflecting on how the last few years have been going for me, regarding my tendency to have no structure, no consistency, plenty of burnout, and no job lasting longer than a year and a half, and have consequently been reversing course on what you describe, especially now that I have medication. Long, long before I had an ADHD diagnosis, I struggled with the same pattern of working intensely for whatever amount of time it took to get any arbitrary thing done, and with the impulse to get up and do something else, watch a video, or check the news. Naturally I came across similar suggestions, just embrace the impulses a bit. But there are too many traps and too many addictions that we all just take for granted, and don't take seriously enough. So, I've been going in the opposite direction, and prioritizing the things that I feel are important, including finite but not periodic windows of arbitrary entertainment, and a cutoff to my work day; I'm essentially experimenting with aspects of deep work and systems thinking. The phone stays out of sight or completely off unless I'm expecting a call, or it's scheduled downtime, and the rest of most days are spent deliberately on things I get the most value out of. For things like laundry and basic chores, I just don't consider those distracting, and have been batching them at the beginning or between periods of focus during the day. They're not distracting because they don't necessarily take me out of any state of immersion. I'm still thinking about the code or decision or whatever, whereas an email or text message or internet argument fully put my brain resources somewhere else. Any videos I need are mostly downloaded for offline viewing beforehand, articles saved to pocket, but realistically I never read them anymore, and most break time during focus periods is an actual book or silence, not for the purpose of productivity, but because I want to read books and the way I've been living hasn't enabled me to have the space to focus on them. One chapter at a time. Any random ideas or searches I try to just note for later. Sometimes I revisit them, sometimes not, it usually doesn't matter. It's also not worthwhile in my opinion to measure short term progress, so in terms of how these systems work for me, I'll see where I am in a few months or years, assuming the specifics will change gradually.
    - appleiigs 3y ago
      I see what you are saying. You can indulge too much. There is a certain amount of discipline required. In my method, I have to work for the 20 mins. Essentially practice focusing, work through the restlessness. I also have things during the 20 mins to help me stretch it out - such as sitting outside while working (or have window wide open) or TV and music on for the background noise. For the 10 mins of distractions, definitely have to be strict about it. Can't stretch that. It goes by very fast. Can't go out to do errands just because I feel like it. As an aside note, doing 10 mins of house chores multiple times a day really adds up. Lot of satisfaction, and more importantly focus gained!, when the house is tidy.
- jihiggins 3y ago
  For me, the more I'm able to avoid productivity related guilt / shame / "catch up" behaviors, the more energy I've had for addressing underlying issues. Some things have just sort of worked themselves out. I've ended up with what I think of as a "procrastination ouroboros." Most of the projects I rotate through have various interesting parts that are in various states of completion. The big difference for me, though, is that it _is_ a rotation. I actually return to projects now, because I don't completely burn through all of my enthusiasm in the first go. One of these is a project that I've been working on for several years now, which is a first for me. I still don't love losing days on something nonsensical because I hyperfocused. I still end up stuck on boring tasks, and it's hard to not feel like it's all laziness, etc. After years of that, though, it feels like pushing _directly_ against those impulses isn't really sustainable. It's pointless wasting extra time on self-flagellation. I don't know that this level of granularity will actually apply to anyone else, but I think it's worthwhile to at least give yourself the space to explore things like this when you can. (Also, I take an SSRI, a prescription stim, working from home helps, and I'm sure there are a myriad of other things / factors. I think, if nothing else, "giving in" would have helped me try some of those things earlier, and it has helped me avoid short circuiting thought processes that prevent attempts at actual change.)
klysm 3y ago
I think there’s a healthy balance of following the ADHD that can be found. I try not to beat myself up for abandoning projects after the fun part is over. Who cares? They’re just projects for me. But when it’s a project for someone else, it’s important to fight through and finish things
1290900990 3y ago
The funny thing about ADHD is that the "topic" of ADHD is a trap for ADHD people in itself. Being aware of ADHD might initially seem like a good thing, but then it becomes a constant thing to "optimize" for. It becomes ever-present. "Could this behavior/issue/problem be my ADHD?".
- jihiggins 3y ago
  Trouble with executive function / working memory are issues that affect every facet of your life. It's already ever-present, regardless of whether or not you put a name to it.
- groby_b 3y ago
  Being aware of ADHD is unequivocally a good thing, because it gives you the vocabulary to talk about what you are experiencing. It helps you find workaround & tools for your issues. You might even be able to treat it. (given you work in a functioning society that doesn't randomly restricts manufacturing of the meds you need because other folks like to abuse it and develop addictions) The idea that awareness of your medical issues is somehow an affliction in itself is an incredibly condescending idea.

jakeinspace 3y ago

If you don’t mind, I’d love to hear a bit more. I feel like I’ve been pushing hard against my ADHD tendencies as well, very curious what it means and looks like to give in and flourish.

appleiigs 3y ago
Working from home really helped me. I use the Tomato/Pomodoro technique, but backwards. I let myself be distracted for 10 minutes first, then I work for 20 mins after. Distractions such as laundry, reading news come first, which relieves the feeling that I need to do something else, calms me down. Then I can do 1 work task for 20 mins. Then when I feel restless again I spend another 10 mins doing what my mind wants (eg. brush dog)… then back to 20 mins of work. For me the point of the timer is to snap me out of the distraction or I’ll be on Hacker News for an hour.
- danShumway 3y ago
  > For me the point of the timer is to snap me out of the distraction or I’ll be on Hacker News for an hour. Timers are such a big deal with ADHD. It's not news to anyone that people with ADHD suffer from time blindness, but even knowing that I'm constantly underestimating how much it affects me. Even if I'm not doing a scheduled task, having something that regularly beeps or vibrates to shake me out of whatever I'm focusing on so I can ask, "how am I feeling, what am I doing, when was the last time I drank water, have I eaten today, what should I be doing right now" is very helpful -- at least until the brain learns to tune out the beep and you have to find a new sound. I highly recommend people having trouble with focusing or distracting to get a cheap wristwatch or some kind of timer and setting it to beep or vibrate every 10-30 minutes. Doesn't solve every problem, but helps a lot with staying just a bit more rooted in reality.
  - dpig_ 3y ago
    I live and die by the timers on my watch (whenever I can remember to set them).
    - scns 3y ago
      I set the Calendar from Simple Mobile Tools to repeat Notification till discarded. That way i have to switch it off and look what needs to be done.
- brailsafe 3y ago
  I've been reflecting on how the last few years have been going for me, regarding my tendency to have no structure, no consistency, plenty of burnout, and no job lasting longer than a year and a half, and have consequently been reversing course on what you describe, especially now that I have medication. Long, long before I had an ADHD diagnosis, I struggled with the same pattern of working intensely for whatever amount of time it took to get any arbitrary thing done, and with the impulse to get up and do something else, watch a video, or check the news. Naturally I came across similar suggestions, just embrace the impulses a bit. But there are too many traps and too many addictions that we all just take for granted, and don't take seriously enough. So, I've been going in the opposite direction, and prioritizing the things that I feel are important, including finite but not periodic windows of arbitrary entertainment, and a cutoff to my work day; I'm essentially experimenting with aspects of deep work and systems thinking. The phone stays out of sight or completely off unless I'm expecting a call, or it's scheduled downtime, and the rest of most days are spent deliberately on things I get the most value out of. For things like laundry and basic chores, I just don't consider those distracting, and have been batching them at the beginning or between periods of focus during the day. They're not distracting because they don't necessarily take me out of any state of immersion. I'm still thinking about the code or decision or whatever, whereas an email or text message or internet argument fully put my brain resources somewhere else. Any videos I need are mostly downloaded for offline viewing beforehand, articles saved to pocket, but realistically I never read them anymore, and most break time during focus periods is an actual book or silence, not for the purpose of productivity, but because I want to read books and the way I've been living hasn't enabled me to have the space to focus on them. One chapter at a time. Any random ideas or searches I try to just note for later. Sometimes I revisit them, sometimes not, it usually doesn't matter. It's also not worthwhile in my opinion to measure short term progress, so in terms of how these systems work for me, I'll see where I am in a few months or years, assuming the specifics will change gradually.
  - appleiigs 3y ago
    I see what you are saying. You can indulge too much. There is a certain amount of discipline required. In my method, I have to work for the 20 mins. Essentially practice focusing, work through the restlessness. I also have things during the 20 mins to help me stretch it out - such as sitting outside while working (or have window wide open) or TV and music on for the background noise. For the 10 mins of distractions, definitely have to be strict about it. Can't stretch that. It goes by very fast. Can't go out to do errands just because I feel like it. As an aside note, doing 10 mins of house chores multiple times a day really adds up. Lot of satisfaction, and more importantly focus gained!, when the house is tidy.
jihiggins 3y ago
For me, the more I'm able to avoid productivity related guilt / shame / "catch up" behaviors, the more energy I've had for addressing underlying issues. Some things have just sort of worked themselves out. I've ended up with what I think of as a "procrastination ouroboros." Most of the projects I rotate through have various interesting parts that are in various states of completion. The big difference for me, though, is that it _is_ a rotation. I actually return to projects now, because I don't completely burn through all of my enthusiasm in the first go. One of these is a project that I've been working on for several years now, which is a first for me. I still don't love losing days on something nonsensical because I hyperfocused. I still end up stuck on boring tasks, and it's hard to not feel like it's all laziness, etc. After years of that, though, it feels like pushing _directly_ against those impulses isn't really sustainable. It's pointless wasting extra time on self-flagellation. I don't know that this level of granularity will actually apply to anyone else, but I think it's worthwhile to at least give yourself the space to explore things like this when you can. (Also, I take an SSRI, a prescription stim, working from home helps, and I'm sure there are a myriad of other things / factors. I think, if nothing else, "giving in" would have helped me try some of those things earlier, and it has helped me avoid short circuiting thought processes that prevent attempts at actual change.)

klysm 3y ago

I think there’s a healthy balance of following the ADHD that can be found. I try not to beat myself up for abandoning projects after the fun part is over. Who cares? They’re just projects for me. But when it’s a project for someone else, it’s important to fight through and finish things

1290900990 3y ago

The funny thing about ADHD is that the "topic" of ADHD is a trap for ADHD people in itself. Being aware of ADHD might initially seem like a good thing, but then it becomes a constant thing to "optimize" for. It becomes ever-present. "Could this behavior/issue/problem be my ADHD?".

jihiggins 3y ago
Trouble with executive function / working memory are issues that affect every facet of your life. It's already ever-present, regardless of whether or not you put a name to it.
groby_b 3y ago
Being aware of ADHD is unequivocally a good thing, because it gives you the vocabulary to talk about what you are experiencing. It helps you find workaround & tools for your issues. You might even be able to treat it. (given you work in a functioning society that doesn't randomly restricts manufacturing of the meds you need because other folks like to abuse it and develop addictions) The idea that awareness of your medical issues is somehow an affliction in itself is an incredibly condescending idea.