5 ms·

Say what you want about TikTok, but anything that drives people to read more is a good thing

by cush 3y ago

PurpleRamen 3y ago
Why do you assume they read the books? Why do you think that reading in general is good?
- falcolas 3y ago
  > Why do you think that reading in general is good? It exercises your imagination, your vocabulary, and ironically your writing ability. And that doesn't even count any new knowledge gained from books - not guaranteed with fiction, but it still happens quite often. All skills which are valuable for the rest of your life too.
  - PurpleRamen 3y ago
    > It exercises your imagination, your vocabulary, and ironically your writing ability. That strongly depends on what you are reading and what your average level of education is. And considering we are talking about Booktok and UK, or any other country with similar levels of education, I'm not really sure if this is even remotely true. Booktok seems to favor more trashy, silly books, not the kind of content which will enrich your vocabulary or imagination. And I'm saying this as someone who also likes to read such trashy content.
    - falcolas 3y ago
      Considering that the average reading comprehension level in the US is 7th Grade, I think we're fine recommending that people read - even if they're reading trashy books.
  - hotnfresh 3y ago
    The bulk of what actually sells and gets read is deliberately written to be very easy to read and follow, to maximize potential market size. It’s a reaction to the shrinking size of the total market, and why YA and YA-reading-level books (if not nominally YA) now dominate. Been trending that way for 20 or so years. “Any reading is good reading” is an attitude that’s true and useful for young kids, but is less true as they get older, and not true for most adults. At some age and level of development, reading the next Harry Potter prequel book isn’t any more improving than binging a middling TV series.
    - Spivak 3y ago
      This attitude is why people stop reading when they become adults. It's no wonder people burn out of it so fast when you want it to literally be homework. Like good god, easy to read should be a compliment to the author's ability to effectively communicate. They're books not puzzle boxes, calling "not easy to read" a virtue is absurd. Go read some bad fanfic and see for yourself how difficult to read and follow doesn't mean good.
      - grepLeigh 3y ago
        I wish I could up vote this multiple times. I've received so many "heavy" recommendations in my 20s and 30s, from people who read (at most) 1-2 books per year. Some people I know have stopped reading altogether, since they can't find the energy to get through "edifying" material. If that resonates, my unsolicited advice is to: 1. Read for fun. If you're you're going to nosh some brain junk food, it might as well be a book. Enjoy it! 2. Don't be afraid to stop reading one book so you can start another. I've seen so many people try to finish a book they're not enjoying, then stop reading altogether. 3. Once you've (re)cultivated a habit of reading, you might have more tenacity for that hallowed "edifying" material. I'm reading and noodling on "Tensor Calculus for Physics" exercises as a bedtime activity, but that was preceded by months of reading YA spec/sci fiction to unwind.
      - hotnfresh 3y ago
        Nobody said all reading had to be terribly beneficial. I just object to the idea that it necessarily is. That it’s not is fine. Some folks claim it’s virtuous and better for you than, say, watching so-so TV shows, just because it’s READING, and I happen to think that’s plainly silly. And also that it’s fine that it’s largely not. There are multiple ways I could have intended “easy to read”, and I mean that this, from the post I was responding to: > It exercises your imagination, your vocabulary, and ironically your writing ability. Is readily sacrificed, in most salable books, to avoid challenging the reader, because readers who don’t like to have any difficulty with a book are a much larger market than those who want that. You would agree that “See Spot Run” may offer little improving to most adults, even if they enjoy reading it, yes? Then at most we disagree about where that line falls. But, again, it is fine if 40-year-olds like to read See Spot Run. There’s not anything wrong with it, it just bothers me when people paint reading as always some wholesome activity. It’s not—not always, probably not most of the time—but also that is OK.
- metaphor 3y ago
  > Why do you think that reading in general is good? Seriously? To quote Voltaire's Philosophical Dictionary: >> You despise books; you whose lives are absorbed in the vanities of ambition, the pursuit of pleasure or indolence; but remember that all the known world, excepting only savage nations, is governed by books.
  - PurpleRamen 3y ago
    Voltaire lived in a time, where education was a privilege and most books had a decent level of quality, in relation to their time. Not so true anymore for everything we have today. Books for "the vanities of ambition, the pursuit of pleasure or indolence" are pretty common today.
    - cush 3y ago
      Hate to break it to you, but we still live in a time where education is a privilege. Reading is a very good activity to partake in for countless reasons. If you’re worried about people being discouraged from finding good literature, I promise that the gatekeeping attitude you’re perpetuating is way more damaging than a group of online book lovers
      - PurpleRamen 3y ago
        > Hate to break it to you, but we still live in a time where education is a privilege. Not in Voltaire's country France, or most other democratic countries. And I'm talking about the average education available to all citizen, so school, not university. And yes, there are of course exceptions even with school, but those are for other reasons. But that's the point, with any somewhat rich country, the level of education is high enough, that a generalization on the benefits of reading which Voltaire is talking about, are not valid anymore, because we now have them, and are on the point of moving on. And this is especially valid for the young generations. > I promise that the gatekeeping attitude you’re perpetuating is way more damaging than a group of online book lovers How am I gatekeeping? I'm just describing the reality and speak against the delusion of gatekeepers. Reading today is not anymore the great awesome enlightenment it was in the past.
- marcus_holmes 3y ago
  > Why do you think that reading in general is good? Attention span. For me, anyway. I read LOTR as a kid in about 10 days. I tried re-reading it a few years ago and found I just couldn't keep my attention on the words for that long. Like social media and the mobile phone had rotted my ability to keep my attention on a single thing for hours. I uninstalled social media (for other reasons, primarily mental health) and stopped using the phone so much, and managed to finish Wheel of Time (finally!). Reading is good for the attention span, I think.

Say what you want about TikTok, but anything that drives people to read more is a good thing

by cush 3y ago

Say what you want about TikTok, but anything that drives people to read more is a good thing

PurpleRamen 3y ago

Why do you assume they read the books? Why do you think that reading in general is good?

falcolas 3y ago
> Why do you think that reading in general is good? It exercises your imagination, your vocabulary, and ironically your writing ability. And that doesn't even count any new knowledge gained from books - not guaranteed with fiction, but it still happens quite often. All skills which are valuable for the rest of your life too.
- PurpleRamen 3y ago
  > It exercises your imagination, your vocabulary, and ironically your writing ability. That strongly depends on what you are reading and what your average level of education is. And considering we are talking about Booktok and UK, or any other country with similar levels of education, I'm not really sure if this is even remotely true. Booktok seems to favor more trashy, silly books, not the kind of content which will enrich your vocabulary or imagination. And I'm saying this as someone who also likes to read such trashy content.
  - falcolas 3y ago
    Considering that the average reading comprehension level in the US is 7th Grade, I think we're fine recommending that people read - even if they're reading trashy books.
- hotnfresh 3y ago
  The bulk of what actually sells and gets read is deliberately written to be very easy to read and follow, to maximize potential market size. It’s a reaction to the shrinking size of the total market, and why YA and YA-reading-level books (if not nominally YA) now dominate. Been trending that way for 20 or so years. “Any reading is good reading” is an attitude that’s true and useful for young kids, but is less true as they get older, and not true for most adults. At some age and level of development, reading the next Harry Potter prequel book isn’t any more improving than binging a middling TV series.
  - Spivak 3y ago
    This attitude is why people stop reading when they become adults. It's no wonder people burn out of it so fast when you want it to literally be homework. Like good god, easy to read should be a compliment to the author's ability to effectively communicate. They're books not puzzle boxes, calling "not easy to read" a virtue is absurd. Go read some bad fanfic and see for yourself how difficult to read and follow doesn't mean good.
    - grepLeigh 3y ago
      I wish I could up vote this multiple times. I've received so many "heavy" recommendations in my 20s and 30s, from people who read (at most) 1-2 books per year. Some people I know have stopped reading altogether, since they can't find the energy to get through "edifying" material. If that resonates, my unsolicited advice is to: 1. Read for fun. If you're you're going to nosh some brain junk food, it might as well be a book. Enjoy it! 2. Don't be afraid to stop reading one book so you can start another. I've seen so many people try to finish a book they're not enjoying, then stop reading altogether. 3. Once you've (re)cultivated a habit of reading, you might have more tenacity for that hallowed "edifying" material. I'm reading and noodling on "Tensor Calculus for Physics" exercises as a bedtime activity, but that was preceded by months of reading YA spec/sci fiction to unwind.
    - hotnfresh 3y ago
      Nobody said all reading had to be terribly beneficial. I just object to the idea that it necessarily is. That it’s not is fine. Some folks claim it’s virtuous and better for you than, say, watching so-so TV shows, just because it’s READING, and I happen to think that’s plainly silly. And also that it’s fine that it’s largely not. There are multiple ways I could have intended “easy to read”, and I mean that this, from the post I was responding to: > It exercises your imagination, your vocabulary, and ironically your writing ability. Is readily sacrificed, in most salable books, to avoid challenging the reader, because readers who don’t like to have any difficulty with a book are a much larger market than those who want that. You would agree that “See Spot Run” may offer little improving to most adults, even if they enjoy reading it, yes? Then at most we disagree about where that line falls. But, again, it is fine if 40-year-olds like to read See Spot Run. There’s not anything wrong with it, it just bothers me when people paint reading as always some wholesome activity. It’s not—not always, probably not most of the time—but also that is OK.
metaphor 3y ago
> Why do you think that reading in general is good? Seriously? To quote Voltaire's Philosophical Dictionary: >> You despise books; you whose lives are absorbed in the vanities of ambition, the pursuit of pleasure or indolence; but remember that all the known world, excepting only savage nations, is governed by books.
- PurpleRamen 3y ago
  Voltaire lived in a time, where education was a privilege and most books had a decent level of quality, in relation to their time. Not so true anymore for everything we have today. Books for "the vanities of ambition, the pursuit of pleasure or indolence" are pretty common today.
  - cush 3y ago
    Hate to break it to you, but we still live in a time where education is a privilege. Reading is a very good activity to partake in for countless reasons. If you’re worried about people being discouraged from finding good literature, I promise that the gatekeeping attitude you’re perpetuating is way more damaging than a group of online book lovers
    - PurpleRamen 3y ago
      > Hate to break it to you, but we still live in a time where education is a privilege. Not in Voltaire's country France, or most other democratic countries. And I'm talking about the average education available to all citizen, so school, not university. And yes, there are of course exceptions even with school, but those are for other reasons. But that's the point, with any somewhat rich country, the level of education is high enough, that a generalization on the benefits of reading which Voltaire is talking about, are not valid anymore, because we now have them, and are on the point of moving on. And this is especially valid for the young generations. > I promise that the gatekeeping attitude you’re perpetuating is way more damaging than a group of online book lovers How am I gatekeeping? I'm just describing the reality and speak against the delusion of gatekeepers. Reading today is not anymore the great awesome enlightenment it was in the past.
marcus_holmes 3y ago
> Why do you think that reading in general is good? Attention span. For me, anyway. I read LOTR as a kid in about 10 days. I tried re-reading it a few years ago and found I just couldn't keep my attention on the words for that long. Like social media and the mobile phone had rotted my ability to keep my attention on a single thing for hours. I uninstalled social media (for other reasons, primarily mental health) and stopped using the phone so much, and managed to finish Wheel of Time (finally!). Reading is good for the attention span, I think.