5 ms·

Cruise and Waymo are level 4. https://www.sae.org/blog/sae-j3016-update https://www.sae.org/blog/sae-j3016-update

dventimi 3y ago
That's why I said, "If Level 5 means no driver..." I said that for a reason that's germaine to the subject at hand, autonomous trucks: I'm not persuaded autonomous trucks need the level 5 defined in the way the link you provided defines it.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
  The difference from 4 to 5 is the breadth of conditions under which autonomous driving is viable, seemingly with locality as a limiting factor. If a route has the truck leaving the local municipality, the truck is likely not autonomous, even at level 4. I'd be curious if it's possible to schedule a route from San Francisco to Sacramento (let alone San Francisco to New York City) with either Cruise or Waymo, assuming it's necessary to take a highway for such a trip.
  - dventimi 3y ago
    > If a route has the truck leaving the local municipality, the truck is likely not autonomous. I don't understand what you mean. Can you clarify?
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
      From the above link (https://www.sae.org/blog/sae-j3016-update https://www.sae.org/blog/sae-j3016-update) under "What do these features do?" for "SAE Lvel 4": > These features can drive the vehicle under limited conditions and will not operate unless all required conditions are met. If one of these conditions is locality then the vehicle cannot be driven autonomously outside that locale. If a freight truck needs to go from City A to City B -- as they often do -- but the autonomous software only works in City A, then the truck won't be driven autonomously even if it's otherwise capable of autonomous driving. So I slightly misspoke by saying it's "not autonomous" but going into level 4 vs. level 5, a freight truck is not functionally autonomous until it's level 5. It can be driven autonomously in some conditions but such conditions are almost certainly not all conditions that human freight drivers encounter daily. (FWIW, I also entered the conversation late and am mostly responding to this: "I'm not persuaded autonomous trucks need the level 5 defined in the way the link you provided defines it.")
      - dventimi 3y ago
        Thanks for entering the conversation when you did. I hope you'll entertain it for a little longer, but if not, no worries. I'm just thinking, what if those conditions don't prohibit a truck from operating outside of a locale, but rather, they prohibit a truck from operating on anything but certain prescribed routes, on interstates, connecting ports and rail terminals and distribution centers, in the right lane only, in daylight, and in good weather conditions only? Is that level 5? It doesn't sound like level 5 to me. It sounds like level 4. And yet, it also sounds like it would still be very useful to someone running a fleet of trucks. So again, I'm not persuaded level 5 is necessary for autonomous trucks. Some kinds of trucking would be excluded until we get to level 5, but that still leaves some useful trucking that could be handled by level 4.
        lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
        To your point I suspect Level 4 could fulfill most of those conditions. At least enough to require a driver only to drive within city limits.
        dventimi 3y ago
        Haha yep. Like a bar pilot.

That's why I said, "If Level 5 means no driver..." I said that for a reason that's germaine to the subject at hand, autonomous trucks: I'm not persuaded autonomous trucks need the level 5 defined in the way the link you provided defines it.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
The difference from 4 to 5 is the breadth of conditions under which autonomous driving is viable, seemingly with locality as a limiting factor. If a route has the truck leaving the local municipality, the truck is likely not autonomous, even at level 4. I'd be curious if it's possible to schedule a route from San Francisco to Sacramento (let alone San Francisco to New York City) with either Cruise or Waymo, assuming it's necessary to take a highway for such a trip.
- dventimi 3y ago
  > If a route has the truck leaving the local municipality, the truck is likely not autonomous. I don't understand what you mean. Can you clarify?
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
    From the above link (https://www.sae.org/blog/sae-j3016-update https://www.sae.org/blog/sae-j3016-update) under "What do these features do?" for "SAE Lvel 4": > These features can drive the vehicle under limited conditions and will not operate unless all required conditions are met. If one of these conditions is locality then the vehicle cannot be driven autonomously outside that locale. If a freight truck needs to go from City A to City B -- as they often do -- but the autonomous software only works in City A, then the truck won't be driven autonomously even if it's otherwise capable of autonomous driving. So I slightly misspoke by saying it's "not autonomous" but going into level 4 vs. level 5, a freight truck is not functionally autonomous until it's level 5. It can be driven autonomously in some conditions but such conditions are almost certainly not all conditions that human freight drivers encounter daily. (FWIW, I also entered the conversation late and am mostly responding to this: "I'm not persuaded autonomous trucks need the level 5 defined in the way the link you provided defines it.")
    - dventimi 3y ago
      Thanks for entering the conversation when you did. I hope you'll entertain it for a little longer, but if not, no worries. I'm just thinking, what if those conditions don't prohibit a truck from operating outside of a locale, but rather, they prohibit a truck from operating on anything but certain prescribed routes, on interstates, connecting ports and rail terminals and distribution centers, in the right lane only, in daylight, and in good weather conditions only? Is that level 5? It doesn't sound like level 5 to me. It sounds like level 4. And yet, it also sounds like it would still be very useful to someone running a fleet of trucks. So again, I'm not persuaded level 5 is necessary for autonomous trucks. Some kinds of trucking would be excluded until we get to level 5, but that still leaves some useful trucking that could be handled by level 4.
      - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
        To your point I suspect Level 4 could fulfill most of those conditions. At least enough to require a driver only to drive within city limits.
        dventimi 3y ago
        Haha yep. Like a bar pilot.