8 ms·

Reclaim the Internet with Mozilla

85 points by gslin 3y ago

user3939382 3y ago
If you want to do this why don’t you put your money into triple the number of bug fixes in releases, and focus on the quality of Firefox instead of the adventure projects. If you want to see an example of a very complex software project with an impressive release schedule that’s focused on quality check out the release notes for the JetBrains IDEs.
- local_crmdgeon 3y ago
  Agreed - posted something very similar. Check out their partners and grants, sure seems like they think that Firefox doesn't need the money https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/what-we-fund/fellowships-and-awards-partners/ https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/what-we-fund/fellowships-a...
  - text0404 3y ago
    you've linked to the Mozilla Foundation. "Mozilla’s work is guided by the Mozilla Manifesto. Founded as a community open source project in 1998, Mozilla currently consists of two organizations: the 501(c)3 Mozilla Foundation, which leads our movement building work; and its wholly owned subsidiary, the Mozilla Corporation, which leads our market-based work. The two organizations work in close concert with each other and a global community of tens of thousands of volunteers under the single banner: Mozilla." not sure where everyone is getting the idea that Mozilla just makes a web browser. they've been saying for years and years and years that the browser is not their only focus.
    - SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
      > that the browser is not their only focus. No one thinks that it is. The annoyance is that it seems to be their last focus.
- distract8901 3y ago
  I've seen a ton of press from Mozilla recently and none of it has been about Firefox. It's all been shitty virtue signaling like this. I don't give a shit about Mozilla's lofty ideals when they aren't actually doing anything to achieve them. I disliked Mozilla enough years ago to switch to chrome and now that I want to get rid of chrome I have no other options. It seems clear that Mozilla doesn't care to or feel the need to actually improve the product. They'll continue to exist because they must so why bother with a product? Yeah sure, just blow a ton of money on some modern art exhibit why not? God, it's bad enough that we have a chrome monopoly. Does Mozilla really have to be actively shitty in response? Why can't we have an actually good alternative?
gustavus 3y ago
> To commemorate this moment, we are hosting a five-day event at the Alte Münze in Berlin this Oct. 12 to 16 that embodies all of what Mozilla has been, what it aims to be and what it envisions for the internet. If Mozilla really wanted to reclaim the internet they'd focus their efforts on their flagship product rather than hosting awards ceremonies to "explore the future through four immersive rooms that show what’s possible when internet users reclaim individual expression, inspiration, wonder and community"[sic]
- gymbeaux 3y ago
  I switched to Firefox when Chrome started blocking/disabling ad blocker extensions. I would rather use Internet Explorer with an ad blocker than Chrome without an ad blocker. I'm really not sure what more one could want from a browser than what Firefox offers.
  - vlakreeh 3y ago
    HDR support, I have this fancy monitor that's great for watching content on but I can't view it at full quality because of my browser.
    - jillesvangurp 3y ago
      Is there a lot of HDR content on the web?
      - gymbeaux 3y ago
        No, not yet. 4K is still relatively niche as well.
      - vlakreeh 3y ago
        Some youtube videos have it now, but not really. I ripped all my blurays and have them hosted on Jellyfin for consumption which I prefer to use as just a tab in my browser than their dedicated player.
    - 3y ago
gymbeaux 3y ago
I hope they advocate for decentralization. AWS and Azure have centralized the Internet even more than it already was by 2010. Companies like Reddit and "X" and Meta are ruining the Internet. All of my Reddit accounts have been permanently banned, yet I never wrote anything illegal or discriminatory (their rules about what you can and can't say are actually quite exhaustive for an American company that seems fine with spreading misinformation, racist/sexist comments, et. al).
- paulddraper 3y ago
  Considering the quantity of unsavory content on Reddit, it's incredible they ban anyone. (But somehow they do...)
  - commandlinefan 3y ago
    My account was banned for _upvoting_ vaccine hesitancy a few years ago.
amadeuspagel 3y ago
Incredible to see mozilla steal the name of this obnoxious blog[1], which constantly gets to the HN frontpage[2]. I'll take this as an opportunity to express what has always bothered me about this line: To talk about "reclaiming" the net is to adopt the territorial language of revanchist movements, which does not make sense for networks. A website is not a territory. There's no need to "reclaim" what was never yours in the first place. You can make your own website. [1]: https://reclaimthenet.org/ https://reclaimthenet.org/ [2]: https://hn.algolia.com/?q=reclaim+the+net&utm_source=opensearch&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=opensearch https://hn.algolia.com/?q=reclaim+the+net&utm_source=opensea...
- Terr_ 3y ago
  > To talk about "reclaiming" the net is to adopt the territorial language of revanchist movements, which does not make sense for networks. I don't think that's necessarily true, "reclaim" can easily be used to refer to restoring an overall state of affairs or social-norm, as opposed to involving legal ownership or control of some tangible asset. For example, consider the statement: "This holiday is too commercialized, we must reclaim Christmas." It would indeed be creepy-nonsense if that meant making Christmas® a trademark and all related paraphernalia copyrighted beneath a quasi-governmental entity tasked with its ideological purity... But that's probably not what someone means, they're calling for a broad cultural change.
local_crmdgeon 3y ago
Nice! What % of ticket sales will go to the Wikipedia for Refugees and the ADL (I'm Jewish, but wtf?)? Seriously, why can't the open source foundations just use the donations/income the way it's intended? Wiki does the same exact thing, and every year it's a bigger hunk of money. https://www.mozillapulse.org/projects?keyword=grants https://www.mozillapulse.org/projects?keyword=grants https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/what-we-fund/fellowships-and-awards-partners/ https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/what-we-fund/fellowships-a...
revskill 3y ago
Or, just make Firefox faster , at least for better web developer experience ?
- edoceo 3y ago
  And use less battery on my mobile.
- jksk61 3y ago
  dunno, seems comparable to chromium-based alternatives in terms of power drain.
andrewguenther 3y ago
I'm so sick of Mozilla's constant posturing as the "open internet" champion. Unfortunately it seems to be working based on the hordes of goons who interject in any discussion of web browsers that Firefox is the "morally superior" choice. Mozilla is lost. Not just directionless, but in my opinion a total shell of the organization they once were. Chrome's complete dominance can be directly attributed to Mozilla's mismanagement. Just continuing to burn funds on dishonest virtue signaling and failed experiments...
- zvmaz 3y ago
  All I gathered from your comment is that "Mozilla is lost," and some other negative epithets, but nothing on why you think that.
- runiq 3y ago
  Tell me who is morally superior, then.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    No one really. Which is the morally superior hammer manufacturer?
- indymike 3y ago
  I think their problem is trying so hard to sell something that most people don't really care too much about (even though they should): Firefox is more than a browser. Learn more about Firefox products that handle your data with respect and are built for privacy anywhere you go online. People will takes "works better" or "do stuff you want to do" over "more privacy" every time. That's why we have to have laws like CCPA and GDPR to get businesses to even care about privacy.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
throwaway81523 3y ago
[flagged]
RicoElectrico 3y ago
Reclaim open standards like RSS, then? Why remove it in the first place? I contemplate more and more to start consuming news in the form of RSS, because there's no algorithmic curation, or even by the HN hivemind, which is fickle.
- MattDemers 3y ago
  >Why remove it in the first place? Because that would get in the way of Pocket.
  - amadeuspagel 3y ago
    Firefox removed RSS support long before they bought Pocket.
roldie 3y ago
I can't believe how hostile everyone is. You may dislike Mozilla, but they're doing a hell of a lot more to respect users and promote an open internet than Google and Microsoft
- sickofparadox 3y ago
  Saying that they are doing a lot more than Microsoft and Google is to say they are not actively hurting an open internet. I don't think this is even true, Mozilla year after year burns millions of dollars on random unrelated projects while watching its market share slip more and more. The management at Mozilla have effectively killed the browser duopoloy, and probably ensured a permanent chromium environment.
- paulddraper 3y ago
  I struggle to think of anyone who has done more than Google, FWIW. Chrome made JS viable, as opposed to Flash/ActiveX everywhere.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - TheCoelacanth 3y ago
    I struggle to think of anyone who has done more to hurt the open Internet than Google.
iteratethis 3y ago
They de-prioritized Firefox. Probably rightfully so, it doesn't stand a chance against Chrome and Safari being shipped as defaults on mobile. They can't really "organically" engineer it back to meaningful market share. Anyway, somehow Google seems to keep sending them hundreds of millions anyway, so why not spend it on activist blogs that read like a HR DEI policy?
Hamcha 3y ago
"Reclaim the internet" and they post event stuff on Instagram and TikTok?? Even big projects like Blender have embraced open platforms like Peertube, it feels more and more that Mozilla is just PR and no action.
lakomen 3y ago
It's all evil. You only have the choice between lesser evils. It shouldn't be like that. Firefox on mobile has less features than Chrome, can't even view source markup. The only advantage is you can install ublock.
CatWChainsaw 3y ago
At the heart of it, if they want to do the bare minimum to "reclaim the internet", they just need to not alienate everyone still using firefox and let Chrome fall on its own sword with anti-adblock lockdown. That literally requires doing nothing but waiting. I mean if they want to get bonus points they could be better, but that's just crazy talk.

85 points by gslin 3y ago

If you want to do this why don’t you put your money into triple the number of bug fixes in releases, and focus on the quality of Firefox instead of the adventure projects. If you want to see an example of a very complex software project with an impressive release schedule that’s focused on quality check out the release notes for the JetBrains IDEs.

local_crmdgeon 3y ago
Agreed - posted something very similar. Check out their partners and grants, sure seems like they think that Firefox doesn't need the money https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/what-we-fund/fellowships-and-awards-partners/ https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/what-we-fund/fellowships-a...
- text0404 3y ago
  you've linked to the Mozilla Foundation. "Mozilla’s work is guided by the Mozilla Manifesto. Founded as a community open source project in 1998, Mozilla currently consists of two organizations: the 501(c)3 Mozilla Foundation, which leads our movement building work; and its wholly owned subsidiary, the Mozilla Corporation, which leads our market-based work. The two organizations work in close concert with each other and a global community of tens of thousands of volunteers under the single banner: Mozilla." not sure where everyone is getting the idea that Mozilla just makes a web browser. they've been saying for years and years and years that the browser is not their only focus.
  - SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
    > that the browser is not their only focus. No one thinks that it is. The annoyance is that it seems to be their last focus.
distract8901 3y ago
I've seen a ton of press from Mozilla recently and none of it has been about Firefox. It's all been shitty virtue signaling like this. I don't give a shit about Mozilla's lofty ideals when they aren't actually doing anything to achieve them. I disliked Mozilla enough years ago to switch to chrome and now that I want to get rid of chrome I have no other options. It seems clear that Mozilla doesn't care to or feel the need to actually improve the product. They'll continue to exist because they must so why bother with a product? Yeah sure, just blow a ton of money on some modern art exhibit why not? God, it's bad enough that we have a chrome monopoly. Does Mozilla really have to be actively shitty in response? Why can't we have an actually good alternative?

gustavus 3y ago

> To commemorate this moment, we are hosting a five-day event at the Alte Münze in Berlin this Oct. 12 to 16 that embodies all of what Mozilla has been, what it aims to be and what it envisions for the internet. If Mozilla really wanted to reclaim the internet they'd focus their efforts on their flagship product rather than hosting awards ceremonies to "explore the future through four immersive rooms that show what’s possible when internet users reclaim individual expression, inspiration, wonder and community"[sic]

gymbeaux 3y ago
I switched to Firefox when Chrome started blocking/disabling ad blocker extensions. I would rather use Internet Explorer with an ad blocker than Chrome without an ad blocker. I'm really not sure what more one could want from a browser than what Firefox offers.
- vlakreeh 3y ago
  HDR support, I have this fancy monitor that's great for watching content on but I can't view it at full quality because of my browser.
  - jillesvangurp 3y ago
    Is there a lot of HDR content on the web?
    - gymbeaux 3y ago
      No, not yet. 4K is still relatively niche as well.
    - vlakreeh 3y ago
      Some youtube videos have it now, but not really. I ripped all my blurays and have them hosted on Jellyfin for consumption which I prefer to use as just a tab in my browser than their dedicated player.
  - 3y ago

gymbeaux 3y ago

I hope they advocate for decentralization. AWS and Azure have centralized the Internet even more than it already was by 2010. Companies like Reddit and "X" and Meta are ruining the Internet. All of my Reddit accounts have been permanently banned, yet I never wrote anything illegal or discriminatory (their rules about what you can and can't say are actually quite exhaustive for an American company that seems fine with spreading misinformation, racist/sexist comments, et. al).

paulddraper 3y ago
Considering the quantity of unsavory content on Reddit, it's incredible they ban anyone. (But somehow they do...)
- commandlinefan 3y ago
  My account was banned for _upvoting_ vaccine hesitancy a few years ago.

amadeuspagel 3y ago

Incredible to see mozilla steal the name of this obnoxious blog[1], which constantly gets to the HN frontpage[2]. I'll take this as an opportunity to express what has always bothered me about this line: To talk about "reclaiming" the net is to adopt the territorial language of revanchist movements, which does not make sense for networks. A website is not a territory. There's no need to "reclaim" what was never yours in the first place. You can make your own website. [1]: https://reclaimthenet.org/ https://reclaimthenet.org/ [2]: https://hn.algolia.com/?q=reclaim+the+net&utm_source=opensearch&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=opensearch https://hn.algolia.com/?q=reclaim+the+net&utm_source=opensea...

Terr_ 3y ago
> To talk about "reclaiming" the net is to adopt the territorial language of revanchist movements, which does not make sense for networks. I don't think that's necessarily true, "reclaim" can easily be used to refer to restoring an overall state of affairs or social-norm, as opposed to involving legal ownership or control of some tangible asset. For example, consider the statement: "This holiday is too commercialized, we must reclaim Christmas." It would indeed be creepy-nonsense if that meant making Christmas® a trademark and all related paraphernalia copyrighted beneath a quasi-governmental entity tasked with its ideological purity... But that's probably not what someone means, they're calling for a broad cultural change.

local_crmdgeon 3y ago

Nice! What % of ticket sales will go to the Wikipedia for Refugees and the ADL (I'm Jewish, but wtf?)? Seriously, why can't the open source foundations just use the donations/income the way it's intended? Wiki does the same exact thing, and every year it's a bigger hunk of money. https://www.mozillapulse.org/projects?keyword=grants https://www.mozillapulse.org/projects?keyword=grants https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/what-we-fund/fellowships-and-awards-partners/ https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/what-we-fund/fellowships-a...

revskill 3y ago

Or, just make Firefox faster , at least for better web developer experience ?

edoceo 3y ago
And use less battery on my mobile.
jksk61 3y ago
dunno, seems comparable to chromium-based alternatives in terms of power drain.

andrewguenther 3y ago

I'm so sick of Mozilla's constant posturing as the "open internet" champion. Unfortunately it seems to be working based on the hordes of goons who interject in any discussion of web browsers that Firefox is the "morally superior" choice. Mozilla is lost. Not just directionless, but in my opinion a total shell of the organization they once were. Chrome's complete dominance can be directly attributed to Mozilla's mismanagement. Just continuing to burn funds on dishonest virtue signaling and failed experiments...

zvmaz 3y ago
All I gathered from your comment is that "Mozilla is lost," and some other negative epithets, but nothing on why you think that.
runiq 3y ago
Tell me who is morally superior, then.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  No one really. Which is the morally superior hammer manufacturer?
indymike 3y ago
I think their problem is trying so hard to sell something that most people don't really care too much about (even though they should): Firefox is more than a browser. Learn more about Firefox products that handle your data with respect and are built for privacy anywhere you go online. People will takes "works better" or "do stuff you want to do" over "more privacy" every time. That's why we have to have laws like CCPA and GDPR to get businesses to even care about privacy.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

throwaway81523 3y ago

[flagged]

RicoElectrico 3y ago

Reclaim open standards like RSS, then? Why remove it in the first place? I contemplate more and more to start consuming news in the form of RSS, because there's no algorithmic curation, or even by the HN hivemind, which is fickle.

MattDemers 3y ago
>Why remove it in the first place? Because that would get in the way of Pocket.
- amadeuspagel 3y ago
  Firefox removed RSS support long before they bought Pocket.

roldie 3y ago

I can't believe how hostile everyone is. You may dislike Mozilla, but they're doing a hell of a lot more to respect users and promote an open internet than Google and Microsoft

sickofparadox 3y ago
Saying that they are doing a lot more than Microsoft and Google is to say they are not actively hurting an open internet. I don't think this is even true, Mozilla year after year burns millions of dollars on random unrelated projects while watching its market share slip more and more. The management at Mozilla have effectively killed the browser duopoloy, and probably ensured a permanent chromium environment.
paulddraper 3y ago
I struggle to think of anyone who has done more than Google, FWIW. Chrome made JS viable, as opposed to Flash/ActiveX everywhere.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- TheCoelacanth 3y ago
  I struggle to think of anyone who has done more to hurt the open Internet than Google.

iteratethis 3y ago

They de-prioritized Firefox. Probably rightfully so, it doesn't stand a chance against Chrome and Safari being shipped as defaults on mobile. They can't really "organically" engineer it back to meaningful market share. Anyway, somehow Google seems to keep sending them hundreds of millions anyway, so why not spend it on activist blogs that read like a HR DEI policy?

Hamcha 3y ago

"Reclaim the internet" and they post event stuff on Instagram and TikTok?? Even big projects like Blender have embraced open platforms like Peertube, it feels more and more that Mozilla is just PR and no action.

lakomen 3y ago

It's all evil. You only have the choice between lesser evils. It shouldn't be like that. Firefox on mobile has less features than Chrome, can't even view source markup. The only advantage is you can install ublock.

CatWChainsaw 3y ago

At the heart of it, if they want to do the bare minimum to "reclaim the internet", they just need to not alienate everyone still using firefox and let Chrome fall on its own sword with anti-adblock lockdown. That literally requires doing nothing but waiting. I mean if they want to get bonus points they could be better, but that's just crazy talk.