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I'm rather convinced that people's negative opinions of cars are almost exclusively influenced by their usage of them. Cars are complex. They all break. Everyon

I'm rather convinced that people's negative opinions of cars are almost exclusively influenced by their usage of them. Cars are complex. They all break. Everyone complains about the brands they drive, while almost always continuing to buy those brands.

nickthegreek 3y ago
I regularly bought Toyotas growing up, following in the footsteps of my parents. We never had any major issues over decades.
kstrauser 3y ago
I don't get what you mean here. Why else would they have negative opinions of them? Also, we bought a minivan in 2003, put 250,000 miles on it with no major repairs, got in an accident that totaled it, replaced it with a new version of the same model, have nearly 100,000 problem-free miles on it, and would buy the same model again if something happened to this one. Some people genuinely like their vehicles. I'd guess that most people do.
- xboxnolifes 3y ago
  I believe they're saying that the people who strongly complain about the brand that they drive are a subset of people who misuse their car and cause problems, or just always find something to complain about. That's why every single car brand has someone who complains about the brand. No matter what brand they would have driven, they would have had something to complain about.
  - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
    A better explanation is that manufacturing isn't perfect and while that variability has definitely gotten better over the years, it still isn't perfect.
  - SkyPuncher 3y ago
    > No matter what brand they would have driven, they would have had something to complain about. This is basically what I'm saying. Though, I'm not necessarily saying misuse happens. Cars are complex, things break - even on the "best" car brands. ---- Right now, I have a poor opinion of GM exhaust systems and catalytic converters. I've had them go out "prematurely" on two vehicles that I've owned for extended periods of time. However, there's absolutely no indication any other vehicle would have done better in the same situation. It just happens that these are the two vehicles I owned long enough and drove enough for the exhaust system to go out.
- SkyPuncher 3y ago
  Your example demonstrates what I'm talking about, but in reverse (building a positive opinion). There are a lot of cars that will easily go 250k miles, in the same way your car does. However, your opinion of other car brands doesn't go up based on your positive experience with this car. Other car brands might actually be more reliable, but you can't form that opinion since you don't drive _other car brand_ (since most people have 1, maybe 2, cars for a long time, it's likely you aren't simultaneously experience many other car brands). The same thing happens, in reverse. People rip on X, Y, or Z car brand for being unreliable without evaluating against the broader market. They drive X, something broke on X, so X sucks. Doesn't matter if A, B, and C brands use the exact same part from the exact same supplier, the negative opinion only applies to the brand that actively broke on the user.
local_crmdgeon 3y ago
A lot of it is political. A lot of people REFUSE to buy American cars (except Telsas) as a political point. My Chevys have been unbelievably reliable, more so than my Toyotas, and the stats bear that out.
- hellojesus 3y ago
  I had a Chevy that very much enjoyed breaking in annoying ways (window motors, fan actuators), but I generally do like the Chevy brand. The real issue to me with American cars, going forward, is that I cannot rely on the company to exist at any point in the future. Strikes that reduce parts and labor while making unaffordable pension demands are going to keep me away from unioned brands. And I am currently in the market for a new vehicle.
- LeafItAlone 3y ago
  > My Chevys have been unbelievably reliable, more so than my Toyotas, and the stats bear that out. Can you post these stats? My Googling (e.g. https://www.carmax.com/articles/most-reliable-car-brands https://www.carmax.com/articles/most-reliable-car-brands) shows that except for Tesla, non-US manufacturers sit in the top 10.
  - local_crmdgeon 3y ago
    https://www.jdpower.com/cars/ratings https://www.jdpower.com/cars/ratings A lot of people cite CR, but their methodology is flawed. They count a confusing volume button equal to a blown transmission, and they only survey their userbase. I fundamentally do not trust a list that ranks BMW well. My favorite is honestly "What makes it to 200k?" https://www.autoweek.com/car-life/g35834918/top-vehicles-most-likely-to-reach-200000-miles/ https://www.autoweek.com/car-life/g35834918/top-vehicles-mos... That's a bunch of GM and Toyota trucks, plus a few Toyota cars. That matches what I see every day. Seems like it answers the question people actually care about, instead of how well the bluetooth works according to Granny.
- cirrus3 3y ago
  I have never heard of anyone refusing to buy America cars as a political point, at least not in America. The opposite is true though. Some people in America refuse to buy American cars because historically they have been less reliable and lower quality than some foreign brands.

nickthegreek 3y ago

I regularly bought Toyotas growing up, following in the footsteps of my parents. We never had any major issues over decades.

kstrauser 3y ago

I don't get what you mean here. Why else would they have negative opinions of them? Also, we bought a minivan in 2003, put 250,000 miles on it with no major repairs, got in an accident that totaled it, replaced it with a new version of the same model, have nearly 100,000 problem-free miles on it, and would buy the same model again if something happened to this one. Some people genuinely like their vehicles. I'd guess that most people do.

xboxnolifes 3y ago
I believe they're saying that the people who strongly complain about the brand that they drive are a subset of people who misuse their car and cause problems, or just always find something to complain about. That's why every single car brand has someone who complains about the brand. No matter what brand they would have driven, they would have had something to complain about.
- PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
  A better explanation is that manufacturing isn't perfect and while that variability has definitely gotten better over the years, it still isn't perfect.
- SkyPuncher 3y ago
  > No matter what brand they would have driven, they would have had something to complain about. This is basically what I'm saying. Though, I'm not necessarily saying misuse happens. Cars are complex, things break - even on the "best" car brands. ---- Right now, I have a poor opinion of GM exhaust systems and catalytic converters. I've had them go out "prematurely" on two vehicles that I've owned for extended periods of time. However, there's absolutely no indication any other vehicle would have done better in the same situation. It just happens that these are the two vehicles I owned long enough and drove enough for the exhaust system to go out.
SkyPuncher 3y ago
Your example demonstrates what I'm talking about, but in reverse (building a positive opinion). There are a lot of cars that will easily go 250k miles, in the same way your car does. However, your opinion of other car brands doesn't go up based on your positive experience with this car. Other car brands might actually be more reliable, but you can't form that opinion since you don't drive _other car brand_ (since most people have 1, maybe 2, cars for a long time, it's likely you aren't simultaneously experience many other car brands). The same thing happens, in reverse. People rip on X, Y, or Z car brand for being unreliable without evaluating against the broader market. They drive X, something broke on X, so X sucks. Doesn't matter if A, B, and C brands use the exact same part from the exact same supplier, the negative opinion only applies to the brand that actively broke on the user.

local_crmdgeon 3y ago

A lot of it is political. A lot of people REFUSE to buy American cars (except Telsas) as a political point. My Chevys have been unbelievably reliable, more so than my Toyotas, and the stats bear that out.

hellojesus 3y ago
I had a Chevy that very much enjoyed breaking in annoying ways (window motors, fan actuators), but I generally do like the Chevy brand. The real issue to me with American cars, going forward, is that I cannot rely on the company to exist at any point in the future. Strikes that reduce parts and labor while making unaffordable pension demands are going to keep me away from unioned brands. And I am currently in the market for a new vehicle.
LeafItAlone 3y ago
> My Chevys have been unbelievably reliable, more so than my Toyotas, and the stats bear that out. Can you post these stats? My Googling (e.g. https://www.carmax.com/articles/most-reliable-car-brands https://www.carmax.com/articles/most-reliable-car-brands) shows that except for Tesla, non-US manufacturers sit in the top 10.
- local_crmdgeon 3y ago
  https://www.jdpower.com/cars/ratings https://www.jdpower.com/cars/ratings A lot of people cite CR, but their methodology is flawed. They count a confusing volume button equal to a blown transmission, and they only survey their userbase. I fundamentally do not trust a list that ranks BMW well. My favorite is honestly "What makes it to 200k?" https://www.autoweek.com/car-life/g35834918/top-vehicles-most-likely-to-reach-200000-miles/ https://www.autoweek.com/car-life/g35834918/top-vehicles-mos... That's a bunch of GM and Toyota trucks, plus a few Toyota cars. That matches what I see every day. Seems like it answers the question people actually care about, instead of how well the bluetooth works according to Granny.
cirrus3 3y ago
I have never heard of anyone refusing to buy America cars as a political point, at least not in America. The opposite is true though. Some people in America refuse to buy American cars because historically they have been less reliable and lower quality than some foreign brands.