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I've been told since childhood that the main obstacle to inexpensive public transit in the the majority of US is racism - keep those people in their neighborhoo

I've been told since childhood that the main obstacle to inexpensive public transit in the the majority of US is racism - keep those people in their neighborhood. I've never done any sort of research or anything, and even though it's depressing, it sounds plausible.

psd1 3y ago
Sprinkle in a dash of car-industry lobbying and suburban sprawl
bad_user 3y ago
I'm not a US citizen, and racism may be the issue. OTOH, given US's geography and culture of wide streets, suburbs, and driving around, it's pretty obvious that public transit is pricier than it is in Europe, similarly to broadband connection. As a European, I could also complain about terrible traffic congestion due to narrow streets in constant need of repair, or lacking parking space, which makes every car ride a source of stress. Your Uber is also dirt cheap compared to where I live.
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  The culture is manufactured though. It is hard or downright illegal to build traditional American towns or housing styles. (It also dates back only to the postwar era.)
fnimick 3y ago
It's very true. Look at the way "urban" is used as a dog whistle for certain groups of people. A bit of local history from where I live: Boston rapid transit was intended to extend to the northwest a considerable distance, putting more communities on the system and allowing easy, car-free commutes. It saw vociferous neighborhood opposition from groups who "didn't like the idea of increased traffic and certain urban elements entering their quiet suburban town." Sound familiar? https://boston.curbed.com/2014/2/13/10144086/the-red-line-stops-in-arlington-and-lexington https://boston.curbed.com/2014/2/13/10144086/the-red-line-st...
- mywittyname 3y ago
  These neighborhoods also happen to be the ones that enforce "driving while black" rules.
- gottorf 3y ago
  > vociferous neighborhood opposition from groups who "didn't like the idea of increased traffic and certain urban elements entering their quiet suburban town." Urban areas generally do have higher rates of crime than suburban or rural areas (and this is certainly true of the Boston area[0]), and prima facie I don't see anything wrong with letting the residents of Arlington determine for themselves the benefits and disadvantages of having the Red Line extend into their town. Not everything has to be a dog-whistle; unless you're suggesting that the residents of suburban Boston are less virtuous than the number of "In this house we believe..." lawn signs might suggest? [0]: https://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Boston-Massachusetts.html https://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Boston-Massachusetts.h...
lambdasquirrel 3y ago
In the SF Bay Area, I think that crowd basically went to, let’s block any and all development, period. There is a serious NIMBY/xenophobic component up and down the West Coast though. As an example that I can talk about, I once took voice classes from a teacher in Berkeley, and the neighbors made her apply for a business license from the city and limit the hours of operation… not that there were ever more than 3 of us and we were already finishing up by 8. To be clear, she was born across the Bay, and I emphasize was not of a skin tone that is associated with recent immigrants. For me, coming from NYC, it never ceased to amaze me how spiteful a certain set of long-timers can be. Another example I can talk about, all the old people in Mountain View who complained about the new restaurants that were coming up, like that brewery that was just off of Castro like 15 years ago. I’ve since concluded that some folks are just angry and spiteful and need to be the absolute center of their world. A long time ago, the West Coast must have attracted a lot of them because there was a whole lot of room for them to live out that life.
- PopAlongKid 3y ago
  > made her apply for a business license from the city and limit the hours of operation That's not an example of being "spiteful", it's just following the law, as all home-based businesses are required to do in most larger towns.
raisedrased 3y ago
[flagged]
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  I think the most baffling thing is that in the Bay a school district proposed building housing restricted to its teachers (because a teacher’s salary is already tight before considering Bay area housing costs.) The residents complained that their kids’ teachers would ruin the character of the area.
sillyfluke 3y ago
I was living without a car in an affluent area of SoCal recently and I made the mistake of using google maps to walk to the nearest cafe, which was 20 minutes away. Google maps literally made me walk on the highway to get there. I later realized local people use the paths through private property to walk where ever (if they ever walk anywhere that is). Puzzled, I asked someone why there were no sidewalks anywhere. They replied without sarcasm that it's probably because people didn't want to encourage "outsiders" to wander around their neighborhood. It's race also, but Americans don't know how to talk about class either, lest god forbid the commies take over. The buses came only once every 2 hours and the closest bus stop itself was at the cafe. When I got on the bus, people realized right way that it was my first rodeo. Everybody on the bus was extremely helpful, chiming in randomly to help me to get to where I needed to go. I'll let you guess their ethnicity.
Slava_Propanei 3y ago
[dead]

psd1 3y ago

Sprinkle in a dash of car-industry lobbying and suburban sprawl

bad_user 3y ago

I'm not a US citizen, and racism may be the issue. OTOH, given US's geography and culture of wide streets, suburbs, and driving around, it's pretty obvious that public transit is pricier than it is in Europe, similarly to broadband connection. As a European, I could also complain about terrible traffic congestion due to narrow streets in constant need of repair, or lacking parking space, which makes every car ride a source of stress. Your Uber is also dirt cheap compared to where I live.

bobthepanda 3y ago
The culture is manufactured though. It is hard or downright illegal to build traditional American towns or housing styles. (It also dates back only to the postwar era.)

fnimick 3y ago

It's very true. Look at the way "urban" is used as a dog whistle for certain groups of people. A bit of local history from where I live: Boston rapid transit was intended to extend to the northwest a considerable distance, putting more communities on the system and allowing easy, car-free commutes. It saw vociferous neighborhood opposition from groups who "didn't like the idea of increased traffic and certain urban elements entering their quiet suburban town." Sound familiar? https://boston.curbed.com/2014/2/13/10144086/the-red-line-stops-in-arlington-and-lexington https://boston.curbed.com/2014/2/13/10144086/the-red-line-st...

mywittyname 3y ago
These neighborhoods also happen to be the ones that enforce "driving while black" rules.
gottorf 3y ago
> vociferous neighborhood opposition from groups who "didn't like the idea of increased traffic and certain urban elements entering their quiet suburban town." Urban areas generally do have higher rates of crime than suburban or rural areas (and this is certainly true of the Boston area[0]), and prima facie I don't see anything wrong with letting the residents of Arlington determine for themselves the benefits and disadvantages of having the Red Line extend into their town. Not everything has to be a dog-whistle; unless you're suggesting that the residents of suburban Boston are less virtuous than the number of "In this house we believe..." lawn signs might suggest? [0]: https://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Boston-Massachusetts.html https://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Boston-Massachusetts.h...

lambdasquirrel 3y ago

In the SF Bay Area, I think that crowd basically went to, let’s block any and all development, period. There is a serious NIMBY/xenophobic component up and down the West Coast though. As an example that I can talk about, I once took voice classes from a teacher in Berkeley, and the neighbors made her apply for a business license from the city and limit the hours of operation… not that there were ever more than 3 of us and we were already finishing up by 8. To be clear, she was born across the Bay, and I emphasize was not of a skin tone that is associated with recent immigrants. For me, coming from NYC, it never ceased to amaze me how spiteful a certain set of long-timers can be. Another example I can talk about, all the old people in Mountain View who complained about the new restaurants that were coming up, like that brewery that was just off of Castro like 15 years ago. I’ve since concluded that some folks are just angry and spiteful and need to be the absolute center of their world. A long time ago, the West Coast must have attracted a lot of them because there was a whole lot of room for them to live out that life.

PopAlongKid 3y ago
> made her apply for a business license from the city and limit the hours of operation That's not an example of being "spiteful", it's just following the law, as all home-based businesses are required to do in most larger towns.

raisedrased 3y ago

[flagged]

bobthepanda 3y ago
I think the most baffling thing is that in the Bay a school district proposed building housing restricted to its teachers (because a teacher’s salary is already tight before considering Bay area housing costs.) The residents complained that their kids’ teachers would ruin the character of the area.

sillyfluke 3y ago

I was living without a car in an affluent area of SoCal recently and I made the mistake of using google maps to walk to the nearest cafe, which was 20 minutes away. Google maps literally made me walk on the highway to get there. I later realized local people use the paths through private property to walk where ever (if they ever walk anywhere that is). Puzzled, I asked someone why there were no sidewalks anywhere. They replied without sarcasm that it's probably because people didn't want to encourage "outsiders" to wander around their neighborhood. It's race also, but Americans don't know how to talk about class either, lest god forbid the commies take over. The buses came only once every 2 hours and the closest bus stop itself was at the cafe. When I got on the bus, people realized right way that it was my first rodeo. Everybody on the bus was extremely helpful, chiming in randomly to help me to get to where I needed to go. I'll let you guess their ethnicity.

Slava_Propanei 3y ago

[dead]