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How are airplanes so cheap ? Airplane fuel is expensive, it takes a larger crew to operate and the planes are more expensive too. Who foots the bill for operati

by screye 3y ago

How are airplanes so cheap ? Airplane fuel is expensive, it takes a larger crew to operate and the planes are more expensive too. Who foots the bill for operating expensive airports ? Are trains mor expensive purely because regulation costs and operating expenses are passed down in entirety to the customer ?

labcomputer 3y ago
> Airplane fuel is expensive No more so than diesel for a locomotive. The formulation is pretty similar. Then, consider that the energy requirements for trains and planes aren't radically different (for long-distance travel). Airplanes fly though the thin air of the stratosphere, while trains try to bore a hole through the thick air near the ground. > it takes a larger crew to operate Not really. The person-hours of labor (for the on-board crew) required to operate a segment between two city pairs is usually less for a plane because it spends less time in transit. In both cases, the crew is unionized and commands high pay and benefits. In both cases, a centralized dispatcher is required, usually certified. In both cases, some staff are needed to run the stations and on/off-load baggage and cargo. In both cases, one group of such staff can be "rotated" through the many arrivals/departures that happen throughout the day. > and the planes are more expensive too [Citation needed] This page implies a Siemens Charger (the type of locomotive used by Brightline) costs ~$11m per unit: https://www.businessinsider.com/amtraks-new-diesel-electric-siemens-chargers-locomotives-2021-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/amtraks-new-diesel-electric-... While this page implies that a Siemens Venture (the type used by Brightline) costs ~$80m per trainset: https://www.theurbanist.org/2021/07/08/amtrak-cuts-deal-with-siemens-for-venture-trainsets-replacing-cascades-equipment/ https://www.theurbanist.org/2021/07/08/amtrak-cuts-deal-with... Each train requires 2x locomotives and one set of cars, for a total cost of ~$100m. A 737 also costs ~$100m new: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/much-does-boeing-737-cost-142750481.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/much-does-boeing-737-cost-142... The Venture set carries about 250 pax, while the 737 carries about 180. But the 737 can complete more trips in a given amount of time compared to a train. > Who foots the bill for operating expensive airports ? Generally the people who use it, via ticket prices. O'hare airport is a major profit center for the city of Chicago (check out the city's border--that little nub on the west side is the airport). > Are trains mor[e] expensive purely because regulation costs and operating expenses are passed down in entirety to the customer ? It's mostly a combination of: 1. Higher labor costs (because a train takes longer, and the crew requirements are similar). 2. Needing to build and maintain a continuous right of way for hundreds of miles. 3. Less efficient use of capital because the same amount of equipment can make fewer trips in a given amount of time.

by screye 3y ago

labcomputer 3y ago

> Airplane fuel is expensive No more so than diesel for a locomotive. The formulation is pretty similar. Then, consider that the energy requirements for trains and planes aren't radically different (for long-distance travel). Airplanes fly though the thin air of the stratosphere, while trains try to bore a hole through the thick air near the ground. > it takes a larger crew to operate Not really. The person-hours of labor (for the on-board crew) required to operate a segment between two city pairs is usually less for a plane because it spends less time in transit. In both cases, the crew is unionized and commands high pay and benefits. In both cases, a centralized dispatcher is required, usually certified. In both cases, some staff are needed to run the stations and on/off-load baggage and cargo. In both cases, one group of such staff can be "rotated" through the many arrivals/departures that happen throughout the day. > and the planes are more expensive too [Citation needed] This page implies a Siemens Charger (the type of locomotive used by Brightline) costs ~$11m per unit: https://www.businessinsider.com/amtraks-new-diesel-electric-siemens-chargers-locomotives-2021-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/amtraks-new-diesel-electric-... While this page implies that a Siemens Venture (the type used by Brightline) costs ~$80m per trainset: https://www.theurbanist.org/2021/07/08/amtrak-cuts-deal-with-siemens-for-venture-trainsets-replacing-cascades-equipment/ https://www.theurbanist.org/2021/07/08/amtrak-cuts-deal-with... Each train requires 2x locomotives and one set of cars, for a total cost of ~$100m. A 737 also costs ~$100m new: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/much-does-boeing-737-cost-142750481.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/much-does-boeing-737-cost-142... The Venture set carries about 250 pax, while the 737 carries about 180. But the 737 can complete more trips in a given amount of time compared to a train. > Who foots the bill for operating expensive airports ? Generally the people who use it, via ticket prices. O'hare airport is a major profit center for the city of Chicago (check out the city's border--that little nub on the west side is the airport). > Are trains mor[e] expensive purely because regulation costs and operating expenses are passed down in entirety to the customer ? It's mostly a combination of: 1. Higher labor costs (because a train takes longer, and the crew requirements are similar). 2. Needing to build and maintain a continuous right of way for hundreds of miles. 3. Less efficient use of capital because the same amount of equipment can make fewer trips in a given amount of time.