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I actually think that what is sad is that it seems as if having viable future as a creative visual artist is likely done. This was a major, major, major outlet

I actually think that what is sad is that it seems as if having viable future as a creative visual artist is likely done. This was a major, major, major outlet and sanctuary for certain types of people to find meaning and fulfillment in their life which is now in the process of being wiped out for a quick buck. We'll be told by OpenAI and friends is that it shouldn't be a problem, because those were mundane tasks and now, people are free up to do more creative / interesting / meaningful things with their time, let's see about that... My gut feeling is that it's bad, the only thing I hope can save it all is that people actually don't find meaning in consuming AI generated art and actual artists with a real back story and something real to communicate remain relevant and in demand. The other day I needed a photo for a website I was working on and I actually purchased a real capture from a local photographer to use because the the authenticity means something to me and the customers... Edit: Is the plan that we just surrender our aspirations and just buy a subscription to ChatWHATEVER and just consume until the end of human history ?

adroniser 3y ago
fwiw the only piece of AI art that has given me the sense of awe and beauty that art you'd find in a museum gives me was that spiral town image https://twitter.com/MrUgleh/status/1705316060201681313 https://twitter.com/MrUgleh/status/1705316060201681313, which is something you couldn't have really made without AI. But that was only interesting because of the unique human generated idea behind it which was the encoding of a geometric pattern within a scene. Most AI art is just generic garbage that you scroll past immediately and doesn't offer you anything. We're gonna have to do something to stop the biggest crisis in meaning ever that comes out of this eventually though. Eventually no one will be of any economic value to society. Maybe just put someone in an ultra realistic simulation to give them artificial meaning.
- notamy 3y ago
  > which is something you couldn't have really made without AI Serious question: Why not? > Eventually no one will be of any economic value to society. People have value outside of economics — I’m sure you know — and it makes me so sad that we as a society? seem to only care about the money in the end.
  - adroniser 3y ago
    I think you're right it could have been created without AI. I'm trying to think of the right way to say it. Maybe it wouldn't have been created without AI? Or AI has made it so simple to express this idea that the idea has been expressed? Or just the idea of inpainting is what has brought this idea forward. Yes of course people have value outside of economics that's why I said economics and not value in general. I think it's quite sad as a society we've moved towards a value system which is basically what is good for the economy is good, and if you earn more money you are better. In the past most people were religious and that gave them meaning. Religion is in decline now but I think people are just replacing it with worshipping the progression of technology basically. For the last 100 years there's always been a clear direction to move in to progress technology, and we haven't really had to think very hard. That's what AI is going to bring an end to I think and I have no idea what we are going to do.
    - notamy 3y ago
      > In the past most people were religious and that gave them meaning. Religion is in decline now but I think people are just replacing it with worshipping the progression of technology basically. For the last 100 years there's always been a clear direction to move in to progress technology, and we haven't really had to think very hard. That's what AI is going to bring an end to I think and I have no idea what we are going to do. Fascinating thought. Technology as the new religion is smth I’ll have to think about more.
      - ChatGTP 3y ago
        Watch some clips from Ray Kurzweil, I find his visions to be basically indistinguishable from what I've read in the bible and in other religions. He talks about immortality, resurrection, digital afterlife. Omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient super intelligence, the whole shebang. He even claims that soon, we'll all be Gods, millions of times more intelligent then we are today. In some ways, I actually find his views and beliefs a little disturbing. I recently saw an "AI safety discussion" featuring Gregg Brockman from OpenAI who was referencing Kurzeil. It does seem like the religion has maybe caught on. To what extent Brock believes in it, I'm not sure but I can't help feeling that this belief in modern tech might one day seem like how we thought of the pyramids granting eternal life, or mercury, or any other seemingly incredible thing discovery / phenomena of the time. That is to say, the brain is a fickle beast and is easily amused and is just as easily bored. While we're in the situation we fee we're on the doorstep of immortality, eternal greatness, but maybe we're no where near that. I'm open minded about it all, but it's hard to deny the parallels between the past beliefs and the present. Maybe this time it is different? Who knows.
notamy 3y ago
Imo it seems this is what generative AI currently optimises for — cutting the humans out of the creative/similar processes. It’s depressing, and I fully understand why artists of all sorts get upset about it. Especially because many tech people often seem to be okay with ignoring copyright/licensing and arguably hurting people’s livelihood right up until GitHub ingests GPL code for Copilot and suddenly copyright and licensing matter.
optimalsolver 3y ago
Well I've been told that AI can't produce anything truly novel, so human artists need only retreat to the final stronghold of originality and surely human exceptionalism will remain unscathed.
codingdave 3y ago
I'm not following your argument - I am a visual artist. I do it for myself, as you said, as an outlet. I enjoy it. If AI can also create images... I don't see how that changes what I enjoy. There are already better painters than I, and more productive painters than I. They make money with it, I don't. This doesn't stop me from painting. Neither will AI that can paint. I'll still do what I enjoy.
- ryanklee 3y ago
  People will continue to make art for non-monetary reasons just as they've always done. Some will manage to make money doing it and most won't. Seems to me like that's been an unchanging story throughout human history. Chess has never been more popular, for f's sake!

adroniser 3y ago

fwiw the only piece of AI art that has given me the sense of awe and beauty that art you'd find in a museum gives me was that spiral town image https://twitter.com/MrUgleh/status/1705316060201681313 https://twitter.com/MrUgleh/status/1705316060201681313, which is something you couldn't have really made without AI. But that was only interesting because of the unique human generated idea behind it which was the encoding of a geometric pattern within a scene. Most AI art is just generic garbage that you scroll past immediately and doesn't offer you anything. We're gonna have to do something to stop the biggest crisis in meaning ever that comes out of this eventually though. Eventually no one will be of any economic value to society. Maybe just put someone in an ultra realistic simulation to give them artificial meaning.

notamy 3y ago
> which is something you couldn't have really made without AI Serious question: Why not? > Eventually no one will be of any economic value to society. People have value outside of economics — I’m sure you know — and it makes me so sad that we as a society? seem to only care about the money in the end.
- adroniser 3y ago
  I think you're right it could have been created without AI. I'm trying to think of the right way to say it. Maybe it wouldn't have been created without AI? Or AI has made it so simple to express this idea that the idea has been expressed? Or just the idea of inpainting is what has brought this idea forward. Yes of course people have value outside of economics that's why I said economics and not value in general. I think it's quite sad as a society we've moved towards a value system which is basically what is good for the economy is good, and if you earn more money you are better. In the past most people were religious and that gave them meaning. Religion is in decline now but I think people are just replacing it with worshipping the progression of technology basically. For the last 100 years there's always been a clear direction to move in to progress technology, and we haven't really had to think very hard. That's what AI is going to bring an end to I think and I have no idea what we are going to do.
  - notamy 3y ago
    > In the past most people were religious and that gave them meaning. Religion is in decline now but I think people are just replacing it with worshipping the progression of technology basically. For the last 100 years there's always been a clear direction to move in to progress technology, and we haven't really had to think very hard. That's what AI is going to bring an end to I think and I have no idea what we are going to do. Fascinating thought. Technology as the new religion is smth I’ll have to think about more.
    - ChatGTP 3y ago
      Watch some clips from Ray Kurzweil, I find his visions to be basically indistinguishable from what I've read in the bible and in other religions. He talks about immortality, resurrection, digital afterlife. Omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient super intelligence, the whole shebang. He even claims that soon, we'll all be Gods, millions of times more intelligent then we are today. In some ways, I actually find his views and beliefs a little disturbing. I recently saw an "AI safety discussion" featuring Gregg Brockman from OpenAI who was referencing Kurzeil. It does seem like the religion has maybe caught on. To what extent Brock believes in it, I'm not sure but I can't help feeling that this belief in modern tech might one day seem like how we thought of the pyramids granting eternal life, or mercury, or any other seemingly incredible thing discovery / phenomena of the time. That is to say, the brain is a fickle beast and is easily amused and is just as easily bored. While we're in the situation we fee we're on the doorstep of immortality, eternal greatness, but maybe we're no where near that. I'm open minded about it all, but it's hard to deny the parallels between the past beliefs and the present. Maybe this time it is different? Who knows.

notamy 3y ago

Imo it seems this is what generative AI currently optimises for — cutting the humans out of the creative/similar processes. It’s depressing, and I fully understand why artists of all sorts get upset about it. Especially because many tech people often seem to be okay with ignoring copyright/licensing and arguably hurting people’s livelihood right up until GitHub ingests GPL code for Copilot and suddenly copyright and licensing matter.

optimalsolver 3y ago

Well I've been told that AI can't produce anything truly novel, so human artists need only retreat to the final stronghold of originality and surely human exceptionalism will remain unscathed.

codingdave 3y ago

I'm not following your argument - I am a visual artist. I do it for myself, as you said, as an outlet. I enjoy it. If AI can also create images... I don't see how that changes what I enjoy. There are already better painters than I, and more productive painters than I. They make money with it, I don't. This doesn't stop me from painting. Neither will AI that can paint. I'll still do what I enjoy.

ryanklee 3y ago
People will continue to make art for non-monetary reasons just as they've always done. Some will manage to make money doing it and most won't. Seems to me like that's been an unchanging story throughout human history. Chess has never been more popular, for f's sake!