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While some engineers definitely get compensated in stock more, is it really the majority of engineers? I feel like it’s over represented because we’re in HN bu

While some engineers definitely get compensated in stock more, is it really the majority of engineers? I feel like it’s over represented because we’re in HN but the vast majority of software engineers in this world don’t get stock at all, it’s just mostly base salary

pc86 3y ago
Absolutely not, it's a VC ecosystem oddity just like people saying they make $400k when most of that is stock and sometimes there isn't even a liquid market for it. The median software engineer salary in the US is something like $110k. Still about twice the average individual income in the US[0], but the vast majority are going to be making 99% of their income in cash compensation including bonuses. I've worked for about a dozen companies based across the US in a variety of industries, and never have I or any of my coworkers had access to stock as part of compensation. [0] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N
- shortrounddev2 3y ago
  I believe that a lot of companies offer stock options for two reasons: 1. Software engineers have come to expect it 2. It provides a very cheap incentive for the engineer to remain at the company for the N number of years required to vest And in the end, they may still end up being worthless
  - pc86 3y ago
    If you want to use "software engineers" to describe everyone in the US who writes code, I don't think #1 is accurate at all. Half of the developers in the US make less than $100k/yr. Most of these people work for banks, small mom-and-pop companies that have 1-3 developers. Public companies with bigger teams who don't give stock to anyone below the VP level. If your entire exposure to software development has been startup fantasy land where profitability doesn't matter yeah most of those companies are giving everyone stock down to the person at the front desk answering phones. That's the minority by every metric - number of companies, number of developers, total revenue, everything. I don't think anyone expects stock compensation unless they're artificially limiting their search to that type of company.
    - shortrounddev2 3y ago
      I can't speak for all engineers, but I've worked at mid-size companies, huge companies, and startups. At each one, I was granted stock options that I had no faith in the value of (and most of which actually declined in value). Many of my coworkers talked about their stock options as part of their TC though. My experience is probably not the norm though
shortrounddev2 3y ago
There's also lots of engineers who get paid in worthless stock. Companies which have no plan to ever IPO or who lose money every year. Taking a job at a startup based on potential future valuation and stock options is essentially gambling with hours of your own life
- logicalmonster 3y ago
  Or they can simply plan to let you go long before the options vest. Now, you may or may not have a legal case, but the difficulty in that is extreme.

pc86 3y ago

Absolutely not, it's a VC ecosystem oddity just like people saying they make $400k when most of that is stock and sometimes there isn't even a liquid market for it. The median software engineer salary in the US is something like $110k. Still about twice the average individual income in the US[0], but the vast majority are going to be making 99% of their income in cash compensation including bonuses. I've worked for about a dozen companies based across the US in a variety of industries, and never have I or any of my coworkers had access to stock as part of compensation. [0] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N

shortrounddev2 3y ago
I believe that a lot of companies offer stock options for two reasons: 1. Software engineers have come to expect it 2. It provides a very cheap incentive for the engineer to remain at the company for the N number of years required to vest And in the end, they may still end up being worthless
- pc86 3y ago
  If you want to use "software engineers" to describe everyone in the US who writes code, I don't think #1 is accurate at all. Half of the developers in the US make less than $100k/yr. Most of these people work for banks, small mom-and-pop companies that have 1-3 developers. Public companies with bigger teams who don't give stock to anyone below the VP level. If your entire exposure to software development has been startup fantasy land where profitability doesn't matter yeah most of those companies are giving everyone stock down to the person at the front desk answering phones. That's the minority by every metric - number of companies, number of developers, total revenue, everything. I don't think anyone expects stock compensation unless they're artificially limiting their search to that type of company.
  - shortrounddev2 3y ago
    I can't speak for all engineers, but I've worked at mid-size companies, huge companies, and startups. At each one, I was granted stock options that I had no faith in the value of (and most of which actually declined in value). Many of my coworkers talked about their stock options as part of their TC though. My experience is probably not the norm though

shortrounddev2 3y ago

There's also lots of engineers who get paid in worthless stock. Companies which have no plan to ever IPO or who lose money every year. Taking a job at a startup based on potential future valuation and stock options is essentially gambling with hours of your own life

logicalmonster 3y ago
Or they can simply plan to let you go long before the options vest. Now, you may or may not have a legal case, but the difficulty in that is extreme.