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You do not own your phone, or your PC if others can control your access to it and prevent you from using it as you wish. When are people going to wake up and s

You do not own your phone, or your PC if others can control your access to it and prevent you from using it as you wish. When are people going to wake up and stop accepting this totalitarianism?!

Alifatisk 3y ago
Are there phones where Google can remotely remove content from their local storage? That’s unacceptable
- mocmoc 3y ago
  did you live under a stone?
  - xcdzvyn 3y ago
    no
  - mdp2021 3y ago
    If you are knowledgeable, clarify the matter to us with a little history: when would this feature have started in Android (versions etc.), which are the most important events showing what they can do or not, etc.
  - Alifatisk 3y ago
    Not currently, no
- mdp2021 3y ago
  I think that already with the first iPhone Apple spokesmen said "we built the feature in because we thought we would regret not doing it". It is not just «remov[ing]», it is also planting. (You should remember the case of remotely installing free music albums - which woke up a number of people about "they can plant files on my phone?!".)
- Sayrus 3y ago
  Isn't that all Android phones with the Google Services or Play Store installed? You can remotely wipe them, install or uninstall applications from a browser logged into your Google Account and Google has already deleted apps from users phone since at least over a decade ago [1]. [1] https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2010/06/exercising-our-remote-application.html https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2010/06/exercising...
- jeroenhd 3y ago
  All major mobile operating systems (Android, iOS) and some desktop operating systems (macOS) have the ability to remotely kill a binary through communication with the mothership. Most other desktop computers run antivirus (Windows Defender, McAfee, etc.) which very much allow the same thing. This feature was built to kill malware and viruses. Not even all malware in case of mobile devices, only the particularly bad malware that a "this app is infected with a virus" popup isn't enough for to get rid of. It's not exactly a novel technique either. Most game cracks for Windows are part of one malware database or another, which is why every crack comes with instructions to disable your antivirus software for that particular binary. At some point only the actually infected cracks were being flagged, and in some cases the cracks employ malware-like mechanisms to redirect control flow, but many of these programs will be flagged by AV databases simply for being cracks. Most of the topics where people complain about these types of remote uninstalls are based on pirated games from sketchy sources. It's hard to say if there's actually a virus at play in those situations, but based on the symptoms described ("all APKs I install are marked as viruses") I would think there is some kind of malicious APK modification process going on in a few of these cases.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- no_time 3y ago
  Mozilla can also disable any of your extensions. https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/add-ons-cause-issues-are-on-blocklist https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/add-ons-cause-issues-ar... There needs to be a law against this.
  - rysertio 3y ago
    You can disable the blocklist from about:config . extentions.blocklist.enabled
mdp2021 3y ago
> You do not own your phone, or your PC if others can control You are forgetting the car. With internal microphones cameras, locators and wireless connections to distribute collected data, a "spying system" is installed in your own property (which some do not really consider "property" anymore), and it is more difficult to remove it compared to mobile computers. They can also come with an embedded kill-switch (planned apparently so that rented vehicles can be disabled if the service is unpaid): so you may be driving a vehicle with a subsystem intended to remotely stop it from working, planned to be outside the control of the driver. Software, features and data - which could change outside the control of the owner - are a further step. This is not "ownership". (Further to the privacy and security issues.)
- red_admiral 3y ago
  If you rent a vehicle, then by definition, you are not the owner though? EDIT: I also note that there was another topic on HN not too long ago about car manufacturers being accused of not doing enough about theft (apparently "smart" locks are easy enough to bypass). So a "locate my car/laptop if stolen" feature is a trade-off against privacy and other risks. Personally I think the choice should be with the device owner in the end, but obviously, a remote tracking feature that a thief can easily disable is not much use for end-users who do want the feature.
  - mdp2021 3y ago
    > If you rent a vehicle, then by definition, you are not the owner though? No, you misunderstood the point: the "kill-switch" feature was implemented in case the car is for rental, but the result is that bought cars also contain it. So you would be driving something with an embedded kill-switch - because the manufacturer saw it would be useful under some cases, so it just installed it as part of the bundle. For that matter - as you also point out -, it can also come useful in case the car is stolen. Unfortunately, it also represents a security issue, pretty clearly: it is there, accessible by those who can gain access to it... So, > the choice should be with the device owner in the end And apparently it is not. How would you remove that module, if you want to?
jiofj 3y ago
There is no worse totalitarianism than the one coming from the government itself. What are we going to do?
- teddyh 3y ago
  Oh, there’s one that’s worse: The totalitarianism that’s coming from the general consensus of everybody around you.
  - jiofj 3y ago
    Which is basically the same as the government, because they are the ones voting for that totalitarianism.
    - teddyh 3y ago
      Well, it depends on the local demographics.

You do not own your phone, or your PC if others can control your access to it and prevent you from using it as you wish. When are people going to wake up and stop accepting this totalitarianism?!

Alifatisk 3y ago

Are there phones where Google can remotely remove content from their local storage? That’s unacceptable

mocmoc 3y ago
did you live under a stone?
- xcdzvyn 3y ago
  no
- mdp2021 3y ago
  If you are knowledgeable, clarify the matter to us with a little history: when would this feature have started in Android (versions etc.), which are the most important events showing what they can do or not, etc.
- Alifatisk 3y ago
  Not currently, no
mdp2021 3y ago
I think that already with the first iPhone Apple spokesmen said "we built the feature in because we thought we would regret not doing it". It is not just «remov[ing]», it is also planting. (You should remember the case of remotely installing free music albums - which woke up a number of people about "they can plant files on my phone?!".)
Sayrus 3y ago
Isn't that all Android phones with the Google Services or Play Store installed? You can remotely wipe them, install or uninstall applications from a browser logged into your Google Account and Google has already deleted apps from users phone since at least over a decade ago [1]. [1] https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2010/06/exercising-our-remote-application.html https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2010/06/exercising...
jeroenhd 3y ago
All major mobile operating systems (Android, iOS) and some desktop operating systems (macOS) have the ability to remotely kill a binary through communication with the mothership. Most other desktop computers run antivirus (Windows Defender, McAfee, etc.) which very much allow the same thing. This feature was built to kill malware and viruses. Not even all malware in case of mobile devices, only the particularly bad malware that a "this app is infected with a virus" popup isn't enough for to get rid of. It's not exactly a novel technique either. Most game cracks for Windows are part of one malware database or another, which is why every crack comes with instructions to disable your antivirus software for that particular binary. At some point only the actually infected cracks were being flagged, and in some cases the cracks employ malware-like mechanisms to redirect control flow, but many of these programs will be flagged by AV databases simply for being cracks. Most of the topics where people complain about these types of remote uninstalls are based on pirated games from sketchy sources. It's hard to say if there's actually a virus at play in those situations, but based on the symptoms described ("all APKs I install are marked as viruses") I would think there is some kind of malicious APK modification process going on in a few of these cases.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
no_time 3y ago
Mozilla can also disable any of your extensions. https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/add-ons-cause-issues-are-on-blocklist https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/add-ons-cause-issues-ar... There needs to be a law against this.
- rysertio 3y ago
  You can disable the blocklist from about:config . extentions.blocklist.enabled

mdp2021 3y ago

> You do not own your phone, or your PC if others can control You are forgetting the car. With internal microphones cameras, locators and wireless connections to distribute collected data, a "spying system" is installed in your own property (which some do not really consider "property" anymore), and it is more difficult to remove it compared to mobile computers. They can also come with an embedded kill-switch (planned apparently so that rented vehicles can be disabled if the service is unpaid): so you may be driving a vehicle with a subsystem intended to remotely stop it from working, planned to be outside the control of the driver. Software, features and data - which could change outside the control of the owner - are a further step. This is not "ownership". (Further to the privacy and security issues.)

red_admiral 3y ago
If you rent a vehicle, then by definition, you are not the owner though? EDIT: I also note that there was another topic on HN not too long ago about car manufacturers being accused of not doing enough about theft (apparently "smart" locks are easy enough to bypass). So a "locate my car/laptop if stolen" feature is a trade-off against privacy and other risks. Personally I think the choice should be with the device owner in the end, but obviously, a remote tracking feature that a thief can easily disable is not much use for end-users who do want the feature.
- mdp2021 3y ago
  > If you rent a vehicle, then by definition, you are not the owner though? No, you misunderstood the point: the "kill-switch" feature was implemented in case the car is for rental, but the result is that bought cars also contain it. So you would be driving something with an embedded kill-switch - because the manufacturer saw it would be useful under some cases, so it just installed it as part of the bundle. For that matter - as you also point out -, it can also come useful in case the car is stolen. Unfortunately, it also represents a security issue, pretty clearly: it is there, accessible by those who can gain access to it... So, > the choice should be with the device owner in the end And apparently it is not. How would you remove that module, if you want to?

jiofj 3y ago

There is no worse totalitarianism than the one coming from the government itself. What are we going to do?

teddyh 3y ago
Oh, there’s one that’s worse: The totalitarianism that’s coming from the general consensus of everybody around you.
- jiofj 3y ago
  Which is basically the same as the government, because they are the ones voting for that totalitarianism.
  - teddyh 3y ago
    Well, it depends on the local demographics.