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Valid. I never thought about it, but the problem not in the medium here. It’s more in the laws/contracts. It could be done differently, I assume.

pyuser583 3y ago
Not really. When you (or Netflix) buys a disk, you own it. It’s yours. When you license a show via a streaming service, you don’t own anything. This is the problem with the tech economy. The consumers don’t own anything. They just rent.
- walteweiss 3y ago
  Well, many of us know that popular phrase ‘piracy, it just works.’ When I download a movie this way, I truly own it. Same as I own a DVD disk. It’s just the medium that is different. E.g. I have a collection of Friends on disks, which is legal, I own it. But when it’s ripped as files and stored on an old hdd so I could rewatch some episodes just plugging the disk via USB. I assume it is likely to be illegal. The thing is, copyright holders think it’s wrong, and they want us to rent the content, not own it. I mean it could be done other way technologically, avoiding physical medium and still making it legal somehow. It could be done if the party was interested in it. The problem is not in the physical medium itself.
  - phlo 3y ago
    > [Piracy:] When I download a movie this way, I truly own it. When you download a pirated copy, it's more likely that you _possess_ it, rather than _owning_ it. You are in control of the bits and bytes, they will not just disappear; but since your copy is unlicensed and illicit, the copyright holder could take legal steps to make you delete your copy (and pay for your infringement on their copyright). > Same as I own a DVD disk. That's different. You own the physical disc, and the right to re-sell or potentially lend out that physical disc. (However, you can't take the data from that disc, and stream it to a public audience on the internet.) > [...] rewatch some episodes just plugging the disk via USB Depends on your jurisdiction, but in many places it is legal for you to create a backup of a physical disc that you own, and make personal use of that backup. In some places you are allowed to share your backup copy with friends and family (on a non-commercial basis, of course). It gets nuanced.
    - developer93 3y ago
      Ripping is pretty much undetectable though unless they decide to torrent it for others. So in practice they own it. As to the 2nd point, it's not really 1:1, a more accurate equivalent would be a netflix dvd rather than a bought one.
- jedberg 3y ago
  > When you (or Netflix) buys a disk, you own it. It’s yours. Only because the laws say that physical media is treated differently. If the law said that you could buy a disk and then stream as many copies as you have of the disk, it would completely change the business model. But the law doesn't say that.
  - im_z 3y ago
    And? As if the law in these things has no relevance. Of course it does. You can't just discount this because it's in the law. Good luck seeing these kinds of laws applying to digital media. It's just not treated the same.
Karellen 3y ago
> It could be done differently, I assume. Yes, we could have compulsory licensing, like with music on the radio. If radio stations have a copy of a song, then provided they pay the legally-mandated royalties to the rightsholder, they can play it. They don't need to negotiate with the rightsholder, and the rightsholder cannot prevent them from playing it. We have a working model for how it can work, so we could do the same thing with TV shows and movies on OTA/cable/streaming... but we just don't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_license https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_license
- listenallyall 3y ago
  None of it is "legally" mandated, i.e. there are no laws specifying what a recording artist should get paid. All of it is a complex series of contracts and rights agreements between various corporate entities that have generally become standardized, in order to eliminate negotiations for every song or every artist. But that doesn't mean these agreements are necessarily fair or equitable to all parties.

pyuser583 3y ago

Not really. When you (or Netflix) buys a disk, you own it. It’s yours. When you license a show via a streaming service, you don’t own anything. This is the problem with the tech economy. The consumers don’t own anything. They just rent.

walteweiss 3y ago
Well, many of us know that popular phrase ‘piracy, it just works.’ When I download a movie this way, I truly own it. Same as I own a DVD disk. It’s just the medium that is different. E.g. I have a collection of Friends on disks, which is legal, I own it. But when it’s ripped as files and stored on an old hdd so I could rewatch some episodes just plugging the disk via USB. I assume it is likely to be illegal. The thing is, copyright holders think it’s wrong, and they want us to rent the content, not own it. I mean it could be done other way technologically, avoiding physical medium and still making it legal somehow. It could be done if the party was interested in it. The problem is not in the physical medium itself.
- phlo 3y ago
  > [Piracy:] When I download a movie this way, I truly own it. When you download a pirated copy, it's more likely that you _possess_ it, rather than _owning_ it. You are in control of the bits and bytes, they will not just disappear; but since your copy is unlicensed and illicit, the copyright holder could take legal steps to make you delete your copy (and pay for your infringement on their copyright). > Same as I own a DVD disk. That's different. You own the physical disc, and the right to re-sell or potentially lend out that physical disc. (However, you can't take the data from that disc, and stream it to a public audience on the internet.) > [...] rewatch some episodes just plugging the disk via USB Depends on your jurisdiction, but in many places it is legal for you to create a backup of a physical disc that you own, and make personal use of that backup. In some places you are allowed to share your backup copy with friends and family (on a non-commercial basis, of course). It gets nuanced.
  - developer93 3y ago
    Ripping is pretty much undetectable though unless they decide to torrent it for others. So in practice they own it. As to the 2nd point, it's not really 1:1, a more accurate equivalent would be a netflix dvd rather than a bought one.
jedberg 3y ago
> When you (or Netflix) buys a disk, you own it. It’s yours. Only because the laws say that physical media is treated differently. If the law said that you could buy a disk and then stream as many copies as you have of the disk, it would completely change the business model. But the law doesn't say that.
- im_z 3y ago
  And? As if the law in these things has no relevance. Of course it does. You can't just discount this because it's in the law. Good luck seeing these kinds of laws applying to digital media. It's just not treated the same.

Karellen 3y ago

> It could be done differently, I assume. Yes, we could have compulsory licensing, like with music on the radio. If radio stations have a copy of a song, then provided they pay the legally-mandated royalties to the rightsholder, they can play it. They don't need to negotiate with the rightsholder, and the rightsholder cannot prevent them from playing it. We have a working model for how it can work, so we could do the same thing with TV shows and movies on OTA/cable/streaming... but we just don't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_license https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_license

listenallyall 3y ago
None of it is "legally" mandated, i.e. there are no laws specifying what a recording artist should get paid. All of it is a complex series of contracts and rights agreements between various corporate entities that have generally become standardized, in order to eliminate negotiations for every song or every artist. But that doesn't mean these agreements are necessarily fair or equitable to all parties.