6 ms·

Article notes that coronaviruses binding to ACE2 receptors in the pancreas could cause this. Binding to ACE2 receptors is done by the spike protein, the same s

by Izkata 3y ago

Article notes that coronaviruses binding to ACE2 receptors in the pancreas could cause this. Binding to ACE2 receptors is done by the spike protein, the same spike protein the vaccines created mass amounts of.

peter422 3y ago
It seems to me that it is irrelevant how many spike proteins the vaccines causes your body to make considering that most of humanity has had a real covid infection by this point. The question would be if vaccine followed by covid infection produced more or less spike proteins (and overall health impact) than no vaccine followed by covid infection. If you assume that hospitalization and death is correlated to overall quantity of damaging spike proteins then the default assumption would have to be that vaccines are highly beneficial.
- flagrant_taco 3y ago
  It would be worth studying to see if there's any meaningful different in new diabetic case with regards to natural infection compared to vaccine only. We can assume everyone has been infected, but it can easily be verified by testing for the presence of an immune response to the non-spike proteins.
- Izkata 3y ago
  > The question would be if vaccine followed by covid infection produced more or less spike proteins (and overall health impact) than no vaccine followed by covid infection. The answer is "most likely more" given the IgG4 class switch. ( https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.ade2798 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.ade2798 ) This is a "stand down" class for allergens, so your body doesn't overreact.
XorNot 3y ago
mRNA vaccines don't create circulating spike protein. The specific mechanism of action of mRNA vaccines is to create a spike protein inside a cell (muscle cell - it's an intramuscular injection) which then gets presented by the MHC-proteins on the surface of the cell. This is a similar mechanism which viral-vector vaccines use as well. This is quite unlike regular protein-bolus vaccines which do in fact just inject a bunch of antigen into your body. Of course in all cases, intramuscular injections don't really enter the bloodstream anyway: the immune system picks up the injected material and it is transported by the lymphatic system to be presented to the various immunological systems. Contrast to general viral infection where a self-replicating virus with machinery specifically intended to ensure it is packaged and secreted from infected as a viable infectious agent will basically run rampant until an immune response mounts...at which pointy our blood actually will be full of pieces of spike protein from your immune system shredding virus particles (which is why PCR tests can detect infection for weeks after you've cleared it). [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8402319/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8402319/
- ta8645 3y ago
  I just saw in an article, that while uncommon, mRNA vaccines can actually lead to circulating spike protein. From the article [1]: Most notably, the plasma of patients with postvaccine myocarditis had “markedly elevated levels” of free spike antigen (33.9 ± 22.4 pg/mL), with the protein circulating in the body unbound by antibodies. “Although postvaccine myocarditis clinically occurs more commonly in males, [this] was seen equally in both affected females and males,” the investigators point out. [1] https://www.tctmd.com/news/free-spike-protein-mrna-covid-19-vaccines-implicated-myocarditis https://www.tctmd.com/news/free-spike-protein-mrna-covid-19-...
  - XorNot 3y ago
    From the original study though, patients without myocarditis were found to have no such levels. > A notable finding was that markedly elevated levels of full-length spike protein (33.9±22.4 pg/mL), unbound by antibodies, were detected in the plasma of individuals with postvaccine myocarditis, whereas no free spike was detected in asymptomatic vaccinated control subjects (unpaired t test; P<0.0001). So what we have is a potential explanatory mechanism (namely, probably some biochemistry which means for whatever reason these people seem to release the protein rather then keep it cell bound - although correlation is not causation, the whole effect could work the other round). [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36597886/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36597886/
    - ta8645 3y ago
      You're trying very hard to cling to your belief instead of just admitting, there's at least a chance, you're wrong.
- EMM_386 3y ago
  > mRNA vaccines don't create circulating spike protein What about this recent study, which shows spike protein AND spike mRNA can enter the cell nucleus via a nuclear localization signal: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9909199/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9909199/ What is somewhat disturbing about that, is that if spike mRNA (from the vaccine OR the virus) enters the nucleus, there are other studies showing it can be reverse transcribed possibly via LINE-1: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2105968118 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2105968118 That would mean host genome integration (DNA). That would be bad. Note this is no fly-by-night study, that's an NIH/NIAID/UND study.

by Izkata 3y ago

peter422 3y ago

It seems to me that it is irrelevant how many spike proteins the vaccines causes your body to make considering that most of humanity has had a real covid infection by this point. The question would be if vaccine followed by covid infection produced more or less spike proteins (and overall health impact) than no vaccine followed by covid infection. If you assume that hospitalization and death is correlated to overall quantity of damaging spike proteins then the default assumption would have to be that vaccines are highly beneficial.

flagrant_taco 3y ago
It would be worth studying to see if there's any meaningful different in new diabetic case with regards to natural infection compared to vaccine only. We can assume everyone has been infected, but it can easily be verified by testing for the presence of an immune response to the non-spike proteins.
Izkata 3y ago
> The question would be if vaccine followed by covid infection produced more or less spike proteins (and overall health impact) than no vaccine followed by covid infection. The answer is "most likely more" given the IgG4 class switch. ( https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.ade2798 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciimmunol.ade2798 ) This is a "stand down" class for allergens, so your body doesn't overreact.

XorNot 3y ago

mRNA vaccines don't create circulating spike protein. The specific mechanism of action of mRNA vaccines is to create a spike protein inside a cell (muscle cell - it's an intramuscular injection) which then gets presented by the MHC-proteins on the surface of the cell. This is a similar mechanism which viral-vector vaccines use as well. This is quite unlike regular protein-bolus vaccines which do in fact just inject a bunch of antigen into your body. Of course in all cases, intramuscular injections don't really enter the bloodstream anyway: the immune system picks up the injected material and it is transported by the lymphatic system to be presented to the various immunological systems. Contrast to general viral infection where a self-replicating virus with machinery specifically intended to ensure it is packaged and secreted from infected as a viable infectious agent will basically run rampant until an immune response mounts...at which pointy our blood actually will be full of pieces of spike protein from your immune system shredding virus particles (which is why PCR tests can detect infection for weeks after you've cleared it). [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8402319/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8402319/

ta8645 3y ago
I just saw in an article, that while uncommon, mRNA vaccines can actually lead to circulating spike protein. From the article [1]: Most notably, the plasma of patients with postvaccine myocarditis had “markedly elevated levels” of free spike antigen (33.9 ± 22.4 pg/mL), with the protein circulating in the body unbound by antibodies. “Although postvaccine myocarditis clinically occurs more commonly in males, [this] was seen equally in both affected females and males,” the investigators point out. [1] https://www.tctmd.com/news/free-spike-protein-mrna-covid-19-vaccines-implicated-myocarditis https://www.tctmd.com/news/free-spike-protein-mrna-covid-19-...
- XorNot 3y ago
  From the original study though, patients without myocarditis were found to have no such levels. > A notable finding was that markedly elevated levels of full-length spike protein (33.9±22.4 pg/mL), unbound by antibodies, were detected in the plasma of individuals with postvaccine myocarditis, whereas no free spike was detected in asymptomatic vaccinated control subjects (unpaired t test; P<0.0001). So what we have is a potential explanatory mechanism (namely, probably some biochemistry which means for whatever reason these people seem to release the protein rather then keep it cell bound - although correlation is not causation, the whole effect could work the other round). [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36597886/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36597886/
  - ta8645 3y ago
    You're trying very hard to cling to your belief instead of just admitting, there's at least a chance, you're wrong.
EMM_386 3y ago
> mRNA vaccines don't create circulating spike protein What about this recent study, which shows spike protein AND spike mRNA can enter the cell nucleus via a nuclear localization signal: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9909199/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9909199/ What is somewhat disturbing about that, is that if spike mRNA (from the vaccine OR the virus) enters the nucleus, there are other studies showing it can be reverse transcribed possibly via LINE-1: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2105968118 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2105968118 That would mean host genome integration (DNA). That would be bad. Note this is no fly-by-night study, that's an NIH/NIAID/UND study.