4 ms·

This is simultaneously exciting and embarrassing: exciting because the US is finally seeing some amount of non-remedial rail investment after decades of intenti

This is simultaneously exciting and embarrassing: exciting because the US is finally seeing some amount of non-remedial rail investment after decades of intentional neglect, and embarrassing because the outcome is still so menial (a diesel locomotive traveling at barely HSR speeds at its peak).

kylehotchkiss 3y ago
It proves we are in fact capable of grading a railroad to support faster speeds. We have a lot of historical tracks that never had this requirement
- woodruffw 3y ago
  > It proves we are in fact capable of grading a railroad to support faster speeds. In one important way, it doesn't: the majority of the Brightline Orlando route runs over the pre-existing Florida East Coast Railway[1], which was re-graded to support speeds of 110mph, not higher. That's well below even the lowest bar for HSR (i.e. 125mph). [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_East_Coast_Railway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_East_Coast_Railway
  - TylerE 3y ago
    110 is still faster than the 79mph that 99% of the rail network is limited to, where even that's possible.
    - woodruffw 3y ago
      Yes, and that's a significant accomplishment! Maybe they'll be able to get this route above its current expected average speed of 69mph at some point.
- arcticbull 3y ago
  Didn’t we already prove that with the NEC?
ulfw 3y ago
It's also going nowhere. Miami to Orlando... Airport! Not city, not Disney. Orlando Airport. Then what? Rent a car?
- woodruffw 3y ago
  Right. As far as I can tell, MCO doesn't have any real mass transit besides buses. Maybe they're thinking that Brightline will eventually expand into downtown Orlando itself, or will link directly to SunRail[1]? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SunRail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SunRail
  - tssva 3y ago
    Phase 3 of the Brightline, the expansion to the Orlando airport from West Palm Beach was phase 2, has 3 planned stops. The Orange County Convention Center, near Disney Springs and Tampa. It will connect to the SunRail at the convention center stop.
- adolph 3y ago
  Or a taxi, car service, friend, family, own cat in a parking lot (already present at an airport), city bus, walking, folding bicycle, transcontinental Starship service (coming soon to MCO) . . .
  - TylerE 3y ago
    The airport is not exactly in town, unless you want to walk or bike 10 miles with luggage.
- mattmcknight 3y ago
  You get to Orlando city center...and there's not much to do, it's very tiny part of a low density city. There is a bus terminal and an Amtrak station. I did get around town on the city busses pretty well. Pretty easy to catch a shuttle bus to Disney and local hotels from the airport. Probably more transportation from there than downtown.
Yeul 3y ago
They call trains traveling at 200Kph "high speed" in my country but the Japanese run them at twice those speeds. It's a tiny country so it doesn't matter that much but if in the future we want to replace airplanes we need to do better.
- masklinn 3y ago
  Nit: closer to 1.5, the Shinkansen generally run at 300 or slightly below (the N700S series which started service in 2020 runs at 300 in Taiwan and on Sanyo Shinkansen, but 285 on Tokaido Shinkansen, and 260 on Nishi Kyushu Shinkansen, it does have a design speed of 360). Japan currently has only one line rated above 300, and it’s Tohoku at 320 (and only until Morioka, though this is getting upgraded, and the line might get re-rated to 360 in its entirety once that’s done and if ALFA-X succeeds). AFAIK the only production non-maglev trains designed for 400 are the Chinese CR400 (“fuxing”) and they’re currently operated at 350.
- em-bee 3y ago
  they do that in germany too. it's ridiculous. wikipedia has a good overview of the reality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_Europe
- screye 3y ago
  > tiny country Japan spans the length of the US, and has more than 100 million people in it. Tiny isn't exactly what I'd call it.
  - masklinn 3y ago
    I think by "tiny country" Yeul means their own country rather than japan.
gertrunde 3y ago
It does remind me of the Intercity 125 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterCity_125 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterCity_125) - Which was introduced into service in 1976...
- perihelions 3y ago
  There was a diesel-powered express passenger line [0] that ran at an average 69 mph between Chicago and Denver... back in 1936. The Florida one in the OP also averages 69 mph [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_Zephyr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_Zephyr [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brightline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brightline - "The first Zephyr service to Denver began May 31, 1936, with the trainsets of the Pioneer Zephyr and the Mark Twain Zephyr, trains 9900 and 9903. This new service was known as the Advance Denver Zephyr and operated on a 16-hour schedule." (1,109 miles / 16 hours = 69 mph (112 kph))

kylehotchkiss 3y ago

It proves we are in fact capable of grading a railroad to support faster speeds. We have a lot of historical tracks that never had this requirement

woodruffw 3y ago
> It proves we are in fact capable of grading a railroad to support faster speeds. In one important way, it doesn't: the majority of the Brightline Orlando route runs over the pre-existing Florida East Coast Railway[1], which was re-graded to support speeds of 110mph, not higher. That's well below even the lowest bar for HSR (i.e. 125mph). [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_East_Coast_Railway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_East_Coast_Railway
- TylerE 3y ago
  110 is still faster than the 79mph that 99% of the rail network is limited to, where even that's possible.
  - woodruffw 3y ago
    Yes, and that's a significant accomplishment! Maybe they'll be able to get this route above its current expected average speed of 69mph at some point.
arcticbull 3y ago
Didn’t we already prove that with the NEC?

ulfw 3y ago

It's also going nowhere. Miami to Orlando... Airport! Not city, not Disney. Orlando Airport. Then what? Rent a car?

woodruffw 3y ago
Right. As far as I can tell, MCO doesn't have any real mass transit besides buses. Maybe they're thinking that Brightline will eventually expand into downtown Orlando itself, or will link directly to SunRail[1]? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SunRail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SunRail
- tssva 3y ago
  Phase 3 of the Brightline, the expansion to the Orlando airport from West Palm Beach was phase 2, has 3 planned stops. The Orange County Convention Center, near Disney Springs and Tampa. It will connect to the SunRail at the convention center stop.
adolph 3y ago
Or a taxi, car service, friend, family, own cat in a parking lot (already present at an airport), city bus, walking, folding bicycle, transcontinental Starship service (coming soon to MCO) . . .
- TylerE 3y ago
  The airport is not exactly in town, unless you want to walk or bike 10 miles with luggage.
mattmcknight 3y ago
You get to Orlando city center...and there's not much to do, it's very tiny part of a low density city. There is a bus terminal and an Amtrak station. I did get around town on the city busses pretty well. Pretty easy to catch a shuttle bus to Disney and local hotels from the airport. Probably more transportation from there than downtown.

Yeul 3y ago

They call trains traveling at 200Kph "high speed" in my country but the Japanese run them at twice those speeds. It's a tiny country so it doesn't matter that much but if in the future we want to replace airplanes we need to do better.

masklinn 3y ago
Nit: closer to 1.5, the Shinkansen generally run at 300 or slightly below (the N700S series which started service in 2020 runs at 300 in Taiwan and on Sanyo Shinkansen, but 285 on Tokaido Shinkansen, and 260 on Nishi Kyushu Shinkansen, it does have a design speed of 360). Japan currently has only one line rated above 300, and it’s Tohoku at 320 (and only until Morioka, though this is getting upgraded, and the line might get re-rated to 360 in its entirety once that’s done and if ALFA-X succeeds). AFAIK the only production non-maglev trains designed for 400 are the Chinese CR400 (“fuxing”) and they’re currently operated at 350.
em-bee 3y ago
they do that in germany too. it's ridiculous. wikipedia has a good overview of the reality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_Europe
screye 3y ago
> tiny country Japan spans the length of the US, and has more than 100 million people in it. Tiny isn't exactly what I'd call it.
- masklinn 3y ago
  I think by "tiny country" Yeul means their own country rather than japan.

gertrunde 3y ago

It does remind me of the Intercity 125 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterCity_125 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterCity_125) - Which was introduced into service in 1976...

perihelions 3y ago
There was a diesel-powered express passenger line [0] that ran at an average 69 mph between Chicago and Denver... back in 1936. The Florida one in the OP also averages 69 mph [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_Zephyr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_Zephyr [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brightline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brightline - "The first Zephyr service to Denver began May 31, 1936, with the trainsets of the Pioneer Zephyr and the Mark Twain Zephyr, trains 9900 and 9903. This new service was known as the Advance Denver Zephyr and operated on a 16-hour schedule." (1,109 miles / 16 hours = 69 mph (112 kph))