4 ms·

AI and automation will end up creating more and better jobs than the industrial revolution that created these peoples livelihood. Humanity always strives for m

AI and automation will end up creating more and better jobs than the industrial revolution that created these peoples livelihood. Humanity always strives for more and better. There are entire fields left untouched. We have an entire galaxy to explore. Dare I say: "Ownership" was never in the hands of "the people". Property rights are not just something important. It is everything. It is the only important thing. Its the fabric of human civilisation. Its impossible to have a functioning society with out and I mean that in the literal sense. Even under your utopia, you will still have property rights, its just dictated by "the proletariat". What this looks like in real life is, you replace a decentralised ledger of human value with a centralised ledger managed by the AOCs and Bernies of the world. In other words, you just replaced our current class of elites who (somewhat) earned their station with a new class of elites that just so happened have the gift of gab. To make it worse, the power of our current elites is scoped and limited whereas this new class of elites will have an order of magnitude more power and there will be no limit. A cautionary tale I remember vividly from a guy I met in Miami: He is from Venuezuala, his dad used have an energy drinks company. They lost it all and know he is a refugee in America. The one thing I remember him telling me is why the people don't rise up against Maduro: You don't bite the hand that feeds you. Maduro took everything from them but they still support him for the rotten food he gives them from AID. In your utopia, those hands will be AOCs (bartender) and Bernies (Hippie whos never worked a real job). Don't you see how the structure is fundamentally unstable? Think of it in computer terms, it will be the equivalent of creating a quantum Artificial Super Intelligence that is capable of calculating the actions needed to be taken by hundreds of millions of Americans to create the most perfect outcome. Now replace quantum ASI with AOC (former bartender) and Bernie Sanders (former & current hippie because he's never had a real job). Even a strongman case like China where there is still quasi private ownership and the central committee selects actual competent people, even there the whole system is full of death star vulnerabilities (ghost cities, population implosion).

louwrentius 3y ago
This long reply, which you put some effort in - which I appreciate - reads a bit unhinged, sorry. We have an entire galaxy to explore. I rather not focus on that at all. I’d like to focus on 1. Preserving the earth 2. Make the world much more equal for people Now, I said unhinged because read so much misunderstanding about capitalism / socialism/ communism that I recommend reading a bit up on the actual material, just so that you won’t be wrong. What I also mostly feel reading this, is that indeed you’ve absorbed exactly everything and then some regarding the virtues of capitalism and the evils of socialism/communism. That’s not in your own interest. You may see yourself as a ‘temporary embarrassed millionaire’ but even as a millionaire you are closer to the unhoused than the rich people who own and run things
- pc_edwin 3y ago
  The interesting thing about HN is, although they are incredibly smug, arrogant and often incorrect, at least you can sense that you communicating with smart people. I can assure you, you're not one of them and that makes things pretty tricky for me. To make it worse, although you just called me unhinged you didn't get downvoted or flagged but if I follow suit I will get eviscerated (trust me I tried) and partly its because I can be uhh a little colourful especially in questioning peoples mental capacity. > ...closer to the unhoused than the rich people who own and run things Somebody will always own and run things (impossible otherwise). Even the marxists understood this, thats why you have the dictatorship of the proletariat. They tell you its only temporary until the perpetual motion machine is finished, meanwhile they will just keep the god emperor seat warm you know. Anyways, its not only incredibly silly to even aim towards building such structures, its also immoral. These blowups that happen every time your kin try these ideas are not an accident (i mean..), its a direct result of the moral narratives that drive you people. The guy that fills up grocery store shelves should be worth 300-400 times less than Elon Musk (IMO even less). A society that puts Elon musk in the same realm as that guy (20x-50x), is a deeply immoral society. A society that values AOC (former bartender) and Bernie Sanders (former hippie that never had a real job) higher than Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Jamie Dimond etc deserves to burn to the ground. There is something deeply rotten about such a society, its parasitic. Btw you could similar claims the other way around, there would something wrong about a society where the middle class is shrinking and you have this uneven duality of peasants vs aristocracy. I may even agree that in many ways we are headed that direction. The difference is I think the blame for that can be almost entirely put on your kin. I suggest you look into the Cantillon Effect. What we are facing now are the consequences of FDR era (& subsequent) socialist policies. The check always comes due. You cant create something out nothing. For every dollar, somebody is on the liability side. You can let the barbarians invade the country (short term deflationary), you can create neo-colonialism through the IMF & World Bank (Alex Gladstein IMF) (deflationary), you can move factories to poor countries (deflationary) but at some point the chickens will come home to roost. At some point you will have to pay the pied piper. At some point the nation that has 50-60 hour weeks for their automobile industry will favoured by nature over the nation that forces its automakers to provide 32 hours weeks (4 days). At some point the nation that reveres and empowers their best people will win and latter will be in ruins. Just like how the management & shareholders of Ford deserves to get wiped out for enabling unions, the nation that betrays its competent, conscientious, industrious class deserves to be wiped out.

louwrentius 3y ago

This long reply, which you put some effort in - which I appreciate - reads a bit unhinged, sorry. We have an entire galaxy to explore. I rather not focus on that at all. I’d like to focus on 1. Preserving the earth 2. Make the world much more equal for people Now, I said unhinged because read so much misunderstanding about capitalism / socialism/ communism that I recommend reading a bit up on the actual material, just so that you won’t be wrong. What I also mostly feel reading this, is that indeed you’ve absorbed exactly everything and then some regarding the virtues of capitalism and the evils of socialism/communism. That’s not in your own interest. You may see yourself as a ‘temporary embarrassed millionaire’ but even as a millionaire you are closer to the unhoused than the rich people who own and run things

pc_edwin 3y ago
The interesting thing about HN is, although they are incredibly smug, arrogant and often incorrect, at least you can sense that you communicating with smart people. I can assure you, you're not one of them and that makes things pretty tricky for me. To make it worse, although you just called me unhinged you didn't get downvoted or flagged but if I follow suit I will get eviscerated (trust me I tried) and partly its because I can be uhh a little colourful especially in questioning peoples mental capacity. > ...closer to the unhoused than the rich people who own and run things Somebody will always own and run things (impossible otherwise). Even the marxists understood this, thats why you have the dictatorship of the proletariat. They tell you its only temporary until the perpetual motion machine is finished, meanwhile they will just keep the god emperor seat warm you know. Anyways, its not only incredibly silly to even aim towards building such structures, its also immoral. These blowups that happen every time your kin try these ideas are not an accident (i mean..), its a direct result of the moral narratives that drive you people. The guy that fills up grocery store shelves should be worth 300-400 times less than Elon Musk (IMO even less). A society that puts Elon musk in the same realm as that guy (20x-50x), is a deeply immoral society. A society that values AOC (former bartender) and Bernie Sanders (former hippie that never had a real job) higher than Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Jamie Dimond etc deserves to burn to the ground. There is something deeply rotten about such a society, its parasitic. Btw you could similar claims the other way around, there would something wrong about a society where the middle class is shrinking and you have this uneven duality of peasants vs aristocracy. I may even agree that in many ways we are headed that direction. The difference is I think the blame for that can be almost entirely put on your kin. I suggest you look into the Cantillon Effect. What we are facing now are the consequences of FDR era (& subsequent) socialist policies. The check always comes due. You cant create something out nothing. For every dollar, somebody is on the liability side. You can let the barbarians invade the country (short term deflationary), you can create neo-colonialism through the IMF & World Bank (Alex Gladstein IMF) (deflationary), you can move factories to poor countries (deflationary) but at some point the chickens will come home to roost. At some point you will have to pay the pied piper. At some point the nation that has 50-60 hour weeks for their automobile industry will favoured by nature over the nation that forces its automakers to provide 32 hours weeks (4 days). At some point the nation that reveres and empowers their best people will win and latter will be in ruins. Just like how the management & shareholders of Ford deserves to get wiped out for enabling unions, the nation that betrays its competent, conscientious, industrious class deserves to be wiped out.