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"A smartphone is like a computer with a one-button mouse " Not quite. A touchscreen can detect many fingers, that can do many gestures. The problem is, exept

"A smartphone is like a computer with a one-button mouse " Not quite. A touchscreen can detect many fingers, that can do many gestures. The problem is, exept zooming (pinching with 2 fingers) and moving around (swiping with 2 fingers) the potential is pretty much unused.

sznio 3y ago
>exept zooming (pinching with 2 fingers) 2 fingers is already too much. Maybe I could've done it with 2010 smartphones, but new ones are so large that I switched to double-tap then drag ages ago. It's annoying having to involve a second hand just to zoom something, and trying to do it with a single hand is just a recipe for destroying your phone.
Wowfunhappy 3y ago
It's a good point, but I'm not sure how to use those gestures for text entry. TFA didn't go down the multi-touch route either in their proposal. But it's possible I'm not being creative enough!
- waterproof 3y ago
  iOS already has three-finger pinch to copy/paste, and three-finger swipe to undo/redo. But I find that these gestures are too unreliable for regular use, the gestures almost always activate some other click target plus my other fingers are busy holding the phone.
- xp84 3y ago
  If you forced me to implement something without doing any research, I’d suggest: First, (iOS perspective but it’s not that different than Android) to convert the suggestions row to a row of function keys anytime Shift was held down. No annoying delays or extra taps waiting for the menu pop-up. So now you can use two fingers to cut copy paste undo instead of using several seconds and a popup that can appear anywhere onscreen. Next, arrow keys. Heck, use the same Shift hack and, when Shifted, replace the space bar and the dead useless area below it with a big inverted T. Our phones have gotten much bigger and yet especially on iOS the keyboard hasn’t grown a pixel since what, iOS 5? Case in point: no number row still for Apple, even as an option. Wtf.
TheFlyingFish 3y ago
I have trouble imagining that more than 2-3 fingers can be realistically used for input at once. For one, you normally have to use one hand to hold the phone, which uses up 3-4 fingers. And to enable frequent multi-touch gestures you'd have to hover your hand awkwardly over the phone, which is fine for the occasional pinch-to-zoom but not if you have to do it all the time.
- hutzlibu 3y ago
  But with 2-3 fingers you already have lots of combinations. 2 thumbs are enough. I have been toying with some ideas for a game and thought about the potential for normal use cases. Intuitive (like swiping and pinching) is none of it though and it can only be useful once muscle memory kicks in. So I guess this is the reason, we do not have a global standard for anything advanced multitouch.
  - dundarious 3y ago
    Given 2 finger pinch-spread is already taken for zoomout-zoomin, what are the remaining useful combinations for 3 fingers? It can't detect which finger you're using. It should support one-handed operation, so the 3 finger gesture should be possible with one hand. You'll likely have to use middle and ring fingers, which are mechanically connected, so relative motion would be difficult. I think you're wrong. There are very few combinations available for things like text editing.
    - hutzlibu 3y ago
      "You'll likely have to use middle and ring fingers" Well, people who played the violin or alike can do this, but yeah, it was hard work to learn and cannot be expected of the general user. So yes, it cannot be anything complicated. One of my ideas is to use the position of the fingers and the timing they touch. No matter which finger, what matters is the position they touch down relative to each other. So 2 (or 3) touches, like double click, but with 2 fingers and you evaluate the positions. Simple variant: "pointing finger", "middle finger" -> one action (one touching point, then another touching point shortly afterwards left of the first touching point) "middle finger", "pointing finger" -> another action (first touching point, then the other touching point to the left of the first one) Or you can use the 2 thumbs, or thumb and pointing finger. And use up and down as well. So you have "middle" "up"; "middle" "down"; ... And the actions could be anything, like "middle" "left" could select the next word to the left or go to the beginning of the line. But my main thinking evolved around game actions, but it is the same principle. And then you could also advance it with "middle" "left" "middle", the only limit are the coordination skills of your average user. And ... the hardware limits. I have never really implemented those ideas, because I got frustrated very quickly(some years ago) with how the native touch handling of the OS got in the way, and some unprecise sensor input. But if you keep it simple, it should be doable. I guess I am now motivated to give this experimentation another shot real soon ..

sznio 3y ago

>exept zooming (pinching with 2 fingers) 2 fingers is already too much. Maybe I could've done it with 2010 smartphones, but new ones are so large that I switched to double-tap then drag ages ago. It's annoying having to involve a second hand just to zoom something, and trying to do it with a single hand is just a recipe for destroying your phone.

Wowfunhappy 3y ago

It's a good point, but I'm not sure how to use those gestures for text entry. TFA didn't go down the multi-touch route either in their proposal. But it's possible I'm not being creative enough!

waterproof 3y ago
iOS already has three-finger pinch to copy/paste, and three-finger swipe to undo/redo. But I find that these gestures are too unreliable for regular use, the gestures almost always activate some other click target plus my other fingers are busy holding the phone.
xp84 3y ago
If you forced me to implement something without doing any research, I’d suggest: First, (iOS perspective but it’s not that different than Android) to convert the suggestions row to a row of function keys anytime Shift was held down. No annoying delays or extra taps waiting for the menu pop-up. So now you can use two fingers to cut copy paste undo instead of using several seconds and a popup that can appear anywhere onscreen. Next, arrow keys. Heck, use the same Shift hack and, when Shifted, replace the space bar and the dead useless area below it with a big inverted T. Our phones have gotten much bigger and yet especially on iOS the keyboard hasn’t grown a pixel since what, iOS 5? Case in point: no number row still for Apple, even as an option. Wtf.

TheFlyingFish 3y ago

I have trouble imagining that more than 2-3 fingers can be realistically used for input at once. For one, you normally have to use one hand to hold the phone, which uses up 3-4 fingers. And to enable frequent multi-touch gestures you'd have to hover your hand awkwardly over the phone, which is fine for the occasional pinch-to-zoom but not if you have to do it all the time.

hutzlibu 3y ago
But with 2-3 fingers you already have lots of combinations. 2 thumbs are enough. I have been toying with some ideas for a game and thought about the potential for normal use cases. Intuitive (like swiping and pinching) is none of it though and it can only be useful once muscle memory kicks in. So I guess this is the reason, we do not have a global standard for anything advanced multitouch.
- dundarious 3y ago
  Given 2 finger pinch-spread is already taken for zoomout-zoomin, what are the remaining useful combinations for 3 fingers? It can't detect which finger you're using. It should support one-handed operation, so the 3 finger gesture should be possible with one hand. You'll likely have to use middle and ring fingers, which are mechanically connected, so relative motion would be difficult. I think you're wrong. There are very few combinations available for things like text editing.
  - hutzlibu 3y ago
    "You'll likely have to use middle and ring fingers" Well, people who played the violin or alike can do this, but yeah, it was hard work to learn and cannot be expected of the general user. So yes, it cannot be anything complicated. One of my ideas is to use the position of the fingers and the timing they touch. No matter which finger, what matters is the position they touch down relative to each other. So 2 (or 3) touches, like double click, but with 2 fingers and you evaluate the positions. Simple variant: "pointing finger", "middle finger" -> one action (one touching point, then another touching point shortly afterwards left of the first touching point) "middle finger", "pointing finger" -> another action (first touching point, then the other touching point to the left of the first one) Or you can use the 2 thumbs, or thumb and pointing finger. And use up and down as well. So you have "middle" "up"; "middle" "down"; ... And the actions could be anything, like "middle" "left" could select the next word to the left or go to the beginning of the line. But my main thinking evolved around game actions, but it is the same principle. And then you could also advance it with "middle" "left" "middle", the only limit are the coordination skills of your average user. And ... the hardware limits. I have never really implemented those ideas, because I got frustrated very quickly(some years ago) with how the native touch handling of the OS got in the way, and some unprecise sensor input. But if you keep it simple, it should be doable. I guess I am now motivated to give this experimentation another shot real soon ..