3 ms·

Nah. Flying is awesome. Especially without the TSA. But Brightline is technically HSR running on a converted line.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
Brightline is the sweat spot for HSR in the US, between population centers annoyingly long to drive but annoyingly short to fly. Long haul air transport isn’t going away, but these short hops are the best places to build HSR. Tangentially, this frees up airport gates for routes that cannot be accomplished by rail. My understanding is that their future rail segments are focused on these routes.
- laurencerowe 3y ago
  Brightline is only really HSR under the 1970s pre TGV/Bullet Train definition. Most of the world has moved on to using 250km/h (155mph) as the cut off with many new lines over 300km/h (185mph).
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    We can quibble over the definition of high speed rail in speed, but what’s important is that light rail enables transportation for people who can’t or prefer not to drive, who can’t afford a car for these trips, and overall takes cars off the road. Faster isn’t always better depending on the distance traveled (time saved going much faster over these shorter routes is going to be marginal vs cross country); sometimes faster than the status quo is fast enough.
    - laurencerowe 3y ago
      I agree that regional services are generally more important than long distance HSR. It's absurd that the 80 mile trip from Oakland to Sacramento takes 2 hours. FWIW, Brightline is very traditional heavy rail. It even uses locomotives rather than the more efficient diesel multiple units typically used on similar non-electrified routes in Europe. For stopping services there are big advantages to going electric since they are able to accelerate much faster. The electrification work on Caltrain between San Francisco and San Jose is almost complete. This should make most trips much faster though probably won't make much difference to the express services. Light rail usually refers to the in-city services operated with smaller street-car/tram like vehicles. These tend not to be very fast with top speeds around 50mph when operating on dedicated track, but it doesn't usually matter as they stop very frequently.
      - bobthepanda 3y ago
        FWIW loco vs MU operation is still a valid debate to have with rail. The TGV in France and AVE in Spain use locomotives as well.
        usr1106 3y ago
        The are not called locomotives, but power cars. The real difference is electric vs. diesel. I don't think there is any diesel in operation anywhere running at TGV, ICE or AVE speeds.
        rob74 3y ago
        Well, there is (or was) the ICE-TD (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICE_TD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICE_TD), which has a top speed of 200 km/h (124 mph). I don't think it's technically impossible to have diesel trains with higher speeds, it's just that if you want speeds higher than 200 km/h, you have to build dedicated high speed tracks anyway, and then you are probably going to electrify them. The problem with diesel is more the acceleration (which can also be seen if you compare gasoline and electric cars), which restricts the number of stops, but that's not a problem for HSR.
        usr1106 3y ago
        I know the ICE-TD. Power is less than 2000 kW, whereas electrical highspeed trains have 4 to 5 times of that. Probably it would he impossible to build much more powerful diesel trains. But typically costs and problems grow in non-linear way.
        bobthepanda 3y ago
        I believe the only attempts have been gas turbine trains, but nearly all of those have been derailed by spikes in fuel prices.
mcculley 3y ago
It is mid-speed rail. The top speed is claimed to be 125 MPH.
- Animats 3y ago
  Yes. Very similar to the British Inter-City 125 trains, which were mid-speed Diesel from 1975. Good, successful technology. \ But the track Brightline is using has sections as slow as 40MPH.
  - Robotbeat 3y ago
    This is an issue with HSR generally, as well. There are often sections with very low speed.
    - mcculley 3y ago
      One section of Brightline crosses a 98 year old bridge over the St. Lucie River. It has to go very slow. This new usage has already been a huge hassle for maritime traffic. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRMmuawmxnUFHoyqZJq3d-5ZvTW6F6xXe https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRMmuawmxnUFHoyqZJq3d...

Brightline is the sweat spot for HSR in the US, between population centers annoyingly long to drive but annoyingly short to fly. Long haul air transport isn’t going away, but these short hops are the best places to build HSR. Tangentially, this frees up airport gates for routes that cannot be accomplished by rail. My understanding is that their future rail segments are focused on these routes.

laurencerowe 3y ago
Brightline is only really HSR under the 1970s pre TGV/Bullet Train definition. Most of the world has moved on to using 250km/h (155mph) as the cut off with many new lines over 300km/h (185mph).
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  We can quibble over the definition of high speed rail in speed, but what’s important is that light rail enables transportation for people who can’t or prefer not to drive, who can’t afford a car for these trips, and overall takes cars off the road. Faster isn’t always better depending on the distance traveled (time saved going much faster over these shorter routes is going to be marginal vs cross country); sometimes faster than the status quo is fast enough.
  - laurencerowe 3y ago
    I agree that regional services are generally more important than long distance HSR. It's absurd that the 80 mile trip from Oakland to Sacramento takes 2 hours. FWIW, Brightline is very traditional heavy rail. It even uses locomotives rather than the more efficient diesel multiple units typically used on similar non-electrified routes in Europe. For stopping services there are big advantages to going electric since they are able to accelerate much faster. The electrification work on Caltrain between San Francisco and San Jose is almost complete. This should make most trips much faster though probably won't make much difference to the express services. Light rail usually refers to the in-city services operated with smaller street-car/tram like vehicles. These tend not to be very fast with top speeds around 50mph when operating on dedicated track, but it doesn't usually matter as they stop very frequently.
    - bobthepanda 3y ago
      FWIW loco vs MU operation is still a valid debate to have with rail. The TGV in France and AVE in Spain use locomotives as well.
      - usr1106 3y ago
        The are not called locomotives, but power cars. The real difference is electric vs. diesel. I don't think there is any diesel in operation anywhere running at TGV, ICE or AVE speeds.
        rob74 3y ago
        Well, there is (or was) the ICE-TD (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICE_TD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICE_TD), which has a top speed of 200 km/h (124 mph). I don't think it's technically impossible to have diesel trains with higher speeds, it's just that if you want speeds higher than 200 km/h, you have to build dedicated high speed tracks anyway, and then you are probably going to electrify them. The problem with diesel is more the acceleration (which can also be seen if you compare gasoline and electric cars), which restricts the number of stops, but that's not a problem for HSR.
        usr1106 3y ago
        I know the ICE-TD. Power is less than 2000 kW, whereas electrical highspeed trains have 4 to 5 times of that. Probably it would he impossible to build much more powerful diesel trains. But typically costs and problems grow in non-linear way.
        bobthepanda 3y ago
        I believe the only attempts have been gas turbine trains, but nearly all of those have been derailed by spikes in fuel prices.

mcculley 3y ago

It is mid-speed rail. The top speed is claimed to be 125 MPH.

Animats 3y ago
Yes. Very similar to the British Inter-City 125 trains, which were mid-speed Diesel from 1975. Good, successful technology. \ But the track Brightline is using has sections as slow as 40MPH.
- Robotbeat 3y ago
  This is an issue with HSR generally, as well. There are often sections with very low speed.
  - mcculley 3y ago
    One section of Brightline crosses a 98 year old bridge over the St. Lucie River. It has to go very slow. This new usage has already been a huge hassle for maritime traffic. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRMmuawmxnUFHoyqZJq3d-5ZvTW6F6xXe https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRMmuawmxnUFHoyqZJq3d...