5 ms·

I agree that to put someone on a pedestal simply by dint of their gender, race or sexuality does a disservice to that group. Would love to see a version of thi

I agree that to put someone on a pedestal simply by dint of their gender, race or sexuality does a disservice to that group. Would love to see a version of this story in which her "just happening to be a fabulously beautiful film star" is a marginal remark. But isn't it the same when we lionise sociopathic, charismatic men [0] who "never cared about norms" but end up enshitifying the world with their reckless engineering and cocaine addled moral ambivalence? As a "man in tech who eschews the norms" I'm a little uncomfortable that my fellow computer scientists might hold up Hank Asher as an example of anything but a criminal whose mindset is the exemplar of everything we should seek not to be as ethical hackers. Is there a double standard when a woman with talent, charm and beauty is seen to succeed _despite_ those qualities, whereas a man who is a "lovable rogue" is claimed to succeed because of them? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37612750 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37612750

peoplefromibiza 3y ago
> But isn't it the same when we lionise sociopathic, charismatic men Yes. Steve Jobs myth is completely overblown. Elon Musk is far from being a great entrepreneur, on the contrary he's a malevolent reactionary who's greater achievement is making people believe that a company that profits from selling carbon credits is a car company or a tech company or a software company or a battery company, depending on who you ask. Jeff Bezos normalized new more subtle forms of exploitation of US workforce. etc. etc.
lemper 3y ago
> But isn't it the same when we lionise sociopathic, charismatic men [0] who "never cared about norms" who is this "we" are you referring to? to me, assholes are assholes. be it a man, woman, it, or anything in between. especially if this person works in adtech and adjacent industry. > my fellow computer scientists might hold up Hank Asher as an example of anything but a criminal seems like a problem with your education system. I think there's this thing called ethics, not sure if they teach it there.
- nonrandomstring 3y ago
  > seems like a problem with your education system. I think there's > this thing called ethics, not sure if they teach it there. Absolutely correct. There's an awful, awful problem with our education system (I am from the UK). It is in ruins, completely unfit for purpose in a modern technological society. As for ethics, you're right, we absolutely don't teach it. Worse, we actively downplay or avoid it. I speak from experience of witnessing that first hand. The result: a cult of personality, self-aggrandisement, conquest, kleptomania, and domination passed-off as "business". I absolutely agree that education has lost its way. Do please read my piece about it in the Times HE next week.

peoplefromibiza 3y ago

> But isn't it the same when we lionise sociopathic, charismatic men Yes. Steve Jobs myth is completely overblown. Elon Musk is far from being a great entrepreneur, on the contrary he's a malevolent reactionary who's greater achievement is making people believe that a company that profits from selling carbon credits is a car company or a tech company or a software company or a battery company, depending on who you ask. Jeff Bezos normalized new more subtle forms of exploitation of US workforce. etc. etc.

lemper 3y ago

> But isn't it the same when we lionise sociopathic, charismatic men [0] who "never cared about norms" who is this "we" are you referring to? to me, assholes are assholes. be it a man, woman, it, or anything in between. especially if this person works in adtech and adjacent industry. > my fellow computer scientists might hold up Hank Asher as an example of anything but a criminal seems like a problem with your education system. I think there's this thing called ethics, not sure if they teach it there.

nonrandomstring 3y ago
> seems like a problem with your education system. I think there's > this thing called ethics, not sure if they teach it there. Absolutely correct. There's an awful, awful problem with our education system (I am from the UK). It is in ruins, completely unfit for purpose in a modern technological society. As for ethics, you're right, we absolutely don't teach it. Worse, we actively downplay or avoid it. I speak from experience of witnessing that first hand. The result: a cult of personality, self-aggrandisement, conquest, kleptomania, and domination passed-off as "business". I absolutely agree that education has lost its way. Do please read my piece about it in the Times HE next week.