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Why Third Parties Don't Ever Succeed

6 points by sasvari 15y ago

r00fus 15y ago
The article doesn't even describe the electoral reality: our first-past-the-post (also knows as plurality) voting system [1] mathematically suppresses any but 2 parties. Condorcet laid this out in 1893 [2], and Arrow [3] improved on it. Wikipedia has a bunch of information on this. One can easily only come to the assumption that, like the electoral college, the voting system in the USA has been designed (or co-opted) to prevent actual democratic representation. Of course discussion of such is "conspiracy theory". [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_paradox http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_paradox [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow%27s_impossibility_theorem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow%27s_impossibility_theorem
ggchappell 15y ago
> America has not seen a long-lasting national third-party movement in its history, and it won't be seeing one now. I don't agree. True, it's been a long time. The Democratic and Republican parties have dominated U.S. politics for over 150 years. But the country is older than that. Before the mid-1850s the Whigs were a major force; the Republican Party started as a "third party". So, earlier, did the Whigs, eventually displacing the Federalists. It is true, however, that the U.S. has never seen three major parties being powerful at the same time. When a new party has become powerful, an old one has always faded away, leaving just two.
- guan 15y ago
  The Republican Party did start as a third party, and it might be useful to look at how they succeeded: http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/08/06/289913/gop-as-the-exception-that-proves-the-rule/ http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/08/06/289913/gop-as-t... They managed to convince a lot of incumbent politicians to jump ship and join the Republican Party.
acviana 15y ago
There is a nice series of YouTube videos on this topic on the C.G.P. Grey Explains channel. One specifically illustrates why the first-past-the-post system inevitably becomes a two-party system: http://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo http://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo You can then click through to other videos on topics such as alternative voting systems, gerrymandering, and the electoral college.

6 points by sasvari 15y ago

The article doesn't even describe the electoral reality: our first-past-the-post (also knows as plurality) voting system [1] mathematically suppresses any but 2 parties. Condorcet laid this out in 1893 [2], and Arrow [3] improved on it. Wikipedia has a bunch of information on this. One can easily only come to the assumption that, like the electoral college, the voting system in the USA has been designed (or co-opted) to prevent actual democratic representation. Of course discussion of such is "conspiracy theory". [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-past-the-post_voting [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_paradox http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_paradox [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow%27s_impossibility_theorem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow%27s_impossibility_theorem

ggchappell 15y ago

> America has not seen a long-lasting national third-party movement in its history, and it won't be seeing one now. I don't agree. True, it's been a long time. The Democratic and Republican parties have dominated U.S. politics for over 150 years. But the country is older than that. Before the mid-1850s the Whigs were a major force; the Republican Party started as a "third party". So, earlier, did the Whigs, eventually displacing the Federalists. It is true, however, that the U.S. has never seen three major parties being powerful at the same time. When a new party has become powerful, an old one has always faded away, leaving just two.

guan 15y ago
The Republican Party did start as a third party, and it might be useful to look at how they succeeded: http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/08/06/289913/gop-as-the-exception-that-proves-the-rule/ http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/08/06/289913/gop-as-t... They managed to convince a lot of incumbent politicians to jump ship and join the Republican Party.

acviana 15y ago

There is a nice series of YouTube videos on this topic on the C.G.P. Grey Explains channel. One specifically illustrates why the first-past-the-post system inevitably becomes a two-party system: http://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo http://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo You can then click through to other videos on topics such as alternative voting systems, gerrymandering, and the electoral college.