7 ms·

this reasoning assumes some kind of reasoned one on one debate, and does not take into account intentional "flooding the zone" tactics.

rbanffy 3y ago
It erroneously assumes there is a willingness to enter honest debate.
thsksbd 3y ago
Let me be the judge and deal with the flooding, thank you very much.
- faitswulff 3y ago
  You may be educated or motivated enough to determine the wheat from the chaff, but a good deal of the (voting) population is not.
  - Calamitous 3y ago
    “People are so dumb, we have to protect them from ideas we think are dangerous”?
    - faitswulff 3y ago
      Or protect others. Look up stochastic terrorism for an example of unfettered access to bad ideas. In fact, I’ll save you some key strokes: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochastic_terrorism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochastic_terrorism
      - thsksbd 3y ago
        An entry on wikipedia (great source, btw) doesn't make something real.
  - bavell 3y ago
    Ah yes, therefore we should treat everyone like children who need our protection. Wait, we're going to need some extra power so we can properly protect them. Yeah, we'll probably need a big budget too. And we know what's right and wrong so we need to take swift and bold action against these cretins - I mean citizens - who are espousing the wrong views. What a lovely free and liberal society we have. And it just so happens our kids are learning less and less in school [0]... darn, I guess we'll have to crackdown even harder and triple the budget.... [0] https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/state-test-results-23-baltimore-schools-have-zero-students-proficient-in-math-jovani-patterson-maryland-comprehensive-assessment-program-maryland-governor-wes-moore https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/state-test-r...
    - faitswulff 3y ago
      The biggest problem with a total lack of moderation is stochastic terrorism. As a response to gp mentions, people attacking fiber optic cables for “causing covid” is a problem that can’t simply be refuted logically.
      - nvm0n2 3y ago
        What exactly is "stochastic terrorism"?
        notacoward 3y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochastic_terrorism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochastic_terrorism The term has been well known in public-policy discussions for at least a decade. The basic idea goes back a loooooong time, at least to 1170 when Henry II of England asked, "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?" (meaning Thomas Becket). Thus he ensured that someone would and did, even though he didn't know who, where, or how. The fatwa against Salman Rushdie could serve as a contemporary example that also predates what wiki-editors seem aware of. Offering a clear path to gain favor is almost as good as an order. Nowadays, when a prominent US politician says "these people are {killing babies|sexualizing children|stealing an election} and something should be done about it" then it becomes increasingly likely that violent acts will follow, even though no specific or direct order was given. It's a way to rule by fear while supposedly retaining deniability, but anybody who has been paying attention can see right through it and it's beginning to look as though the legal system might catch up.
  - ta1243 3y ago
    It's unlikely. It's not just how educated an motivated you are, you don't have enough time to be an expert in everything. There are billion dollar industries designed to change your mind and get you to act against your best interest without you even recognising it, but people think they are "free thinkers".
    - thsksbd 3y ago
      So break up these large industries. But don't you dare silence me.
      - ta1243 3y ago
        Every country on earth limits "freedom of speech" to prevent harm
  - thsksbd 3y ago
    A bit paternalistic, no? How do you feel about literacy tests for voting? Presumably you're all in.
- tzs 3y ago
  How will you deal with the flooding? Assuming you are a human, you don't have time to read everything even on just the important issues. The people who are deliberately producing information (as opposed to those whose misinformation is due to error) can often outnumber the producers of accurate information by orders of magnitude. That's both because it takes much more work to produce something accurate than to produce something inaccurate, and because those deliberately producing misinformation often more resources to put toward such production.
ta1243 3y ago
Indeed, when it takes 5 minutes to write some nonsense and 5 hours to refute it, reason has already lost. Meanwhile people laying fibreoptic cable are attacked for creating covid https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/07/5g-conspiracy-theories-attacks-telecoms-covid https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/07/5g-conspira... The perpetrators of these attacks don't come up with their ideas from nowhere.
deely3 3y ago
if you want to completely block 'misinformation' you have only one option: premoderation. lets create special goverment commitee that will read all messages before posting and block any 'misinformation'
sorokod 3y ago
"A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on"

rbanffy 3y ago

It erroneously assumes there is a willingness to enter honest debate.

thsksbd 3y ago

Let me be the judge and deal with the flooding, thank you very much.

faitswulff 3y ago
You may be educated or motivated enough to determine the wheat from the chaff, but a good deal of the (voting) population is not.
- Calamitous 3y ago
  “People are so dumb, we have to protect them from ideas we think are dangerous”?
  - faitswulff 3y ago
    Or protect others. Look up stochastic terrorism for an example of unfettered access to bad ideas. In fact, I’ll save you some key strokes: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochastic_terrorism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochastic_terrorism
    - thsksbd 3y ago
      An entry on wikipedia (great source, btw) doesn't make something real.
- bavell 3y ago
  Ah yes, therefore we should treat everyone like children who need our protection. Wait, we're going to need some extra power so we can properly protect them. Yeah, we'll probably need a big budget too. And we know what's right and wrong so we need to take swift and bold action against these cretins - I mean citizens - who are espousing the wrong views. What a lovely free and liberal society we have. And it just so happens our kids are learning less and less in school [0]... darn, I guess we'll have to crackdown even harder and triple the budget.... [0] https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/state-test-results-23-baltimore-schools-have-zero-students-proficient-in-math-jovani-patterson-maryland-comprehensive-assessment-program-maryland-governor-wes-moore https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/state-test-r...
  - faitswulff 3y ago
    The biggest problem with a total lack of moderation is stochastic terrorism. As a response to gp mentions, people attacking fiber optic cables for “causing covid” is a problem that can’t simply be refuted logically.
    - nvm0n2 3y ago
      What exactly is "stochastic terrorism"?
      - notacoward 3y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochastic_terrorism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochastic_terrorism The term has been well known in public-policy discussions for at least a decade. The basic idea goes back a loooooong time, at least to 1170 when Henry II of England asked, "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?" (meaning Thomas Becket). Thus he ensured that someone would and did, even though he didn't know who, where, or how. The fatwa against Salman Rushdie could serve as a contemporary example that also predates what wiki-editors seem aware of. Offering a clear path to gain favor is almost as good as an order. Nowadays, when a prominent US politician says "these people are {killing babies|sexualizing children|stealing an election} and something should be done about it" then it becomes increasingly likely that violent acts will follow, even though no specific or direct order was given. It's a way to rule by fear while supposedly retaining deniability, but anybody who has been paying attention can see right through it and it's beginning to look as though the legal system might catch up.
- ta1243 3y ago
  It's unlikely. It's not just how educated an motivated you are, you don't have enough time to be an expert in everything. There are billion dollar industries designed to change your mind and get you to act against your best interest without you even recognising it, but people think they are "free thinkers".
  - thsksbd 3y ago
    So break up these large industries. But don't you dare silence me.
    - ta1243 3y ago
      Every country on earth limits "freedom of speech" to prevent harm
- thsksbd 3y ago
  A bit paternalistic, no? How do you feel about literacy tests for voting? Presumably you're all in.
tzs 3y ago
How will you deal with the flooding? Assuming you are a human, you don't have time to read everything even on just the important issues. The people who are deliberately producing information (as opposed to those whose misinformation is due to error) can often outnumber the producers of accurate information by orders of magnitude. That's both because it takes much more work to produce something accurate than to produce something inaccurate, and because those deliberately producing misinformation often more resources to put toward such production.

ta1243 3y ago

Indeed, when it takes 5 minutes to write some nonsense and 5 hours to refute it, reason has already lost. Meanwhile people laying fibreoptic cable are attacked for creating covid https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/07/5g-conspiracy-theories-attacks-telecoms-covid https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/07/5g-conspira... The perpetrators of these attacks don't come up with their ideas from nowhere.

deely3 3y ago

if you want to completely block 'misinformation' you have only one option: premoderation. lets create special goverment commitee that will read all messages before posting and block any 'misinformation'

sorokod 3y ago

"A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on"