6 ms·

Dairy milk straight of a cow doesn't look at all like what we can buy in a supermarket, and home made soya milk is very easy to do. I wouldn't bet on which one

by sgu999 3y ago

Dairy milk straight of a cow doesn't look at all like what we can buy in a supermarket, and home made soya milk is very easy to do. I wouldn't bet on which one is the most "processed" by the industry. Alpro is obviously doing its share of lobbying, but here in France a law was passed to forbid the term "milk" for plant based milk. Soya "milk" isn't allowed on labels for instance. All across Asia everyone knows what it is, us French are apparently too dumb and would be confused. Almond "milk" is ok but only for cosmetics, so is coconut milk I believe. All this is just the result of intense lobbying and, likely, corruption.

TeMPOraL 3y ago
> but here in France a law was passed to forbid the term "milk" for plant based milk. Soya "milk" isn't allowed on labels anymore for instance. Even though all across Asia everyone knows what it is, us French are apparently too dumb and would be confused. Good. I'm all for such laws. Soya "milk" isn't "milk" as the term has been culturally understood for millennia. It's not that people are dumb, but rather that words have connotations, and plenty of people, who don't happen to be nerds of fields adjacent to chemistry or dietetics, will assume that "soy milk" is like normal milk because it's called "soy milk". Same stuff with juices and other foodstuff types. And this stuff has consequences, often health consequences, especially for innocent people like children being fed wrong stuff by confused parents and grandparents (the latter you should excuse for not being able to keep up with the fast-changing landscape of marketing bullshit). Or, looking from the opposite end - the companies introducing soy "milk" could've named it any way they wanted. They chose to call it "milk" to confuse customers. Well, fuck those companies if you ask me.
- myshpa 3y ago
  > It's not that people are dumb Are you sure? - Almond Milk - Over 1,000 years (Middle Ages) - Soy Milk - Over 2,000 years (China) - Rice Milk - Centuries (Asia) - Coconut Milk - Millennia (Southeast Asia) - Oat Milk - Centuries (Nordic countries) - Hemp Milk - Late 20th and 21st century - Cashew Milk - Late 20th century onwards - Poppy Seed Milk - Centuries (Eastern Europe) - Tigernut Milk - Ancient Egypt to present (Spain) - Walnut Milk - Consumed for centuries
  - numpad0 3y ago
    I'd rather agree with GP. There aren't baked rice cake with soy milk icing, most milk in that list are "milk" as the closest understandable description and not by exchange-ability.
    - myshpa 3y ago
      > There aren't baked rice cake with soy milk icing https://www.google.com/search?q=vegan+baked+rice+cake+recipe https://www.google.com/search?q=vegan+baked+rice+cake+recipe https://www.google.com/search?q=vegan+soy+milk+icing+recipe https://www.google.com/search?q=vegan+soy+milk+icing+recipe > not by exchange-ability Milk is often used in recipes for its fat, moisture, and flavor. Many plant-based milks can serve as effective substitutes, depending on the dish. Just ask any vegan.
      - numpad0 3y ago
        > > There aren't baked rice cake with soy milk icing > https://www.google.com/search?q= https://www.google.com/search?q= Well maybe it's just me but "cakes using rice powder" are not rice cakes... rice cakes is wax-like material made from mashed steamed rice, used both as meal or dessert ingredients in warm softened state.
  - sgu999 3y ago
    Ha, thanks for this list. It's crazy to me how many people assume that things that are new in supermarkets are new, period.
- virtualritz 3y ago
  > Good. I'm all for such laws. Soya "milk" isn't "milk" as the term has been culturally understood for millennia. TLDR; You have it upside down. Any white liquid would usually be called "X milk" or "milk of X". In English and other languages. Provably so since centuries (see below). Quoting from [1]: "Recipes from the 13th-century Levant exist describing almond milk Soy was a plant milk used in China during the 14th century. In Medieval England, almond milk was used in dishes such as ris alkere (a type of rice pudding)" When humans discover something their language doesn't have word for, a common pattern is to use an existing word for something you know that looks/behaves/tastes similar and alter it to make the distinction clear. In the case at hand the distinction is made by the prefixed noun. "Coconut milk" was used in the English language for yonx (1698)[2]. As was "almond milk" (14th century)[3]. Millennia? My brother is a linguist. Mainly Sanskrit, Latin, ancient Greek. He said he was really, really curious how you would back up this "[...] since millennia" statement. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_milk#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_milk#History [2] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/coconut%20milk https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/coconut%20milk [3] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/almond%20milk https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/almond%20milk
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- sgu999 3y ago
  > will assume that "soy milk" is like normal milk because it's called "soy milk" I may be elitist, but I'd put that in the "dumb" category. I'm also not a parent so didn't look into babies nutrition yet, but I suspect feeding them anything but infant milk as a replacement for the mother's milk isn't going to do much good. Going in this direction, let's remove "milk" from all the products that aren't suitable. "skimmed milk", "chocolate milk", etc. ;)
shrubble 3y ago
It's so manufacturers and restaurants can't lie about what they are selling. Think about a canned coffee drink with 'milk' added, but then in very small letters on the side of the can it says *soy milk as an example
- myshpa 3y ago
  No, it's because the meat and dairy industry wants to maintain the status quo. If it were for the reasons you listed, they'd require labeling it as "cow's milk" instead of just "milk".
  - shrubble 3y ago
    Redefining the meaning of words to be less specific, rather than more specific, about what you are selling people is what people have a problem with. Every kind of loophole is exploited, when allowed.
    - myshpa 3y ago
      Agreed on clarity, but we can't overlook industry influence. With their environmental footprint under scrutiny, they might be pushing these laws to divert attention and prevent future regulations.
    - sgu999 3y ago
      It's also quite simple to allow the term "milk" as a substitute for "dairy milk" but not for "soy milk". As it had been the case since plant-based milks have been around...

by sgu999 3y ago

TeMPOraL 3y ago

> but here in France a law was passed to forbid the term "milk" for plant based milk. Soya "milk" isn't allowed on labels anymore for instance. Even though all across Asia everyone knows what it is, us French are apparently too dumb and would be confused. Good. I'm all for such laws. Soya "milk" isn't "milk" as the term has been culturally understood for millennia. It's not that people are dumb, but rather that words have connotations, and plenty of people, who don't happen to be nerds of fields adjacent to chemistry or dietetics, will assume that "soy milk" is like normal milk because it's called "soy milk". Same stuff with juices and other foodstuff types. And this stuff has consequences, often health consequences, especially for innocent people like children being fed wrong stuff by confused parents and grandparents (the latter you should excuse for not being able to keep up with the fast-changing landscape of marketing bullshit). Or, looking from the opposite end - the companies introducing soy "milk" could've named it any way they wanted. They chose to call it "milk" to confuse customers. Well, fuck those companies if you ask me.

myshpa 3y ago
> It's not that people are dumb Are you sure? - Almond Milk - Over 1,000 years (Middle Ages) - Soy Milk - Over 2,000 years (China) - Rice Milk - Centuries (Asia) - Coconut Milk - Millennia (Southeast Asia) - Oat Milk - Centuries (Nordic countries) - Hemp Milk - Late 20th and 21st century - Cashew Milk - Late 20th century onwards - Poppy Seed Milk - Centuries (Eastern Europe) - Tigernut Milk - Ancient Egypt to present (Spain) - Walnut Milk - Consumed for centuries
- numpad0 3y ago
  I'd rather agree with GP. There aren't baked rice cake with soy milk icing, most milk in that list are "milk" as the closest understandable description and not by exchange-ability.
  - myshpa 3y ago
    > There aren't baked rice cake with soy milk icing https://www.google.com/search?q=vegan+baked+rice+cake+recipe https://www.google.com/search?q=vegan+baked+rice+cake+recipe https://www.google.com/search?q=vegan+soy+milk+icing+recipe https://www.google.com/search?q=vegan+soy+milk+icing+recipe > not by exchange-ability Milk is often used in recipes for its fat, moisture, and flavor. Many plant-based milks can serve as effective substitutes, depending on the dish. Just ask any vegan.
    - numpad0 3y ago
      > > There aren't baked rice cake with soy milk icing > https://www.google.com/search?q= https://www.google.com/search?q= Well maybe it's just me but "cakes using rice powder" are not rice cakes... rice cakes is wax-like material made from mashed steamed rice, used both as meal or dessert ingredients in warm softened state.
- sgu999 3y ago
  Ha, thanks for this list. It's crazy to me how many people assume that things that are new in supermarkets are new, period.
virtualritz 3y ago
> Good. I'm all for such laws. Soya "milk" isn't "milk" as the term has been culturally understood for millennia. TLDR; You have it upside down. Any white liquid would usually be called "X milk" or "milk of X". In English and other languages. Provably so since centuries (see below). Quoting from [1]: "Recipes from the 13th-century Levant exist describing almond milk Soy was a plant milk used in China during the 14th century. In Medieval England, almond milk was used in dishes such as ris alkere (a type of rice pudding)" When humans discover something their language doesn't have word for, a common pattern is to use an existing word for something you know that looks/behaves/tastes similar and alter it to make the distinction clear. In the case at hand the distinction is made by the prefixed noun. "Coconut milk" was used in the English language for yonx (1698)[2]. As was "almond milk" (14th century)[3]. Millennia? My brother is a linguist. Mainly Sanskrit, Latin, ancient Greek. He said he was really, really curious how you would back up this "[...] since millennia" statement. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_milk#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_milk#History [2] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/coconut%20milk https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/coconut%20milk [3] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/almond%20milk https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/almond%20milk
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
sgu999 3y ago
> will assume that "soy milk" is like normal milk because it's called "soy milk" I may be elitist, but I'd put that in the "dumb" category. I'm also not a parent so didn't look into babies nutrition yet, but I suspect feeding them anything but infant milk as a replacement for the mother's milk isn't going to do much good. Going in this direction, let's remove "milk" from all the products that aren't suitable. "skimmed milk", "chocolate milk", etc. ;)

shrubble 3y ago

It's so manufacturers and restaurants can't lie about what they are selling. Think about a canned coffee drink with 'milk' added, but then in very small letters on the side of the can it says *soy milk as an example

myshpa 3y ago
No, it's because the meat and dairy industry wants to maintain the status quo. If it were for the reasons you listed, they'd require labeling it as "cow's milk" instead of just "milk".
- shrubble 3y ago
  Redefining the meaning of words to be less specific, rather than more specific, about what you are selling people is what people have a problem with. Every kind of loophole is exploited, when allowed.
  - myshpa 3y ago
    Agreed on clarity, but we can't overlook industry influence. With their environmental footprint under scrutiny, they might be pushing these laws to divert attention and prevent future regulations.
  - sgu999 3y ago
    It's also quite simple to allow the term "milk" as a substitute for "dairy milk" but not for "soy milk". As it had been the case since plant-based milks have been around...