5 ms·

Its just blatant protectionism, which ironically hurts both Americans and American automakers.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
RugnirViking 3y ago
Well yeah. I don't know why you say "blatant" though, its not something to be ashamed of nor does any country make an attempt to hide it. As the article says, Europe has tarrifs on car imports too, as do most other nations.
- mathisfun123 3y ago
  > its not something to be ashamed of It's not? I mean I'm certainly ashamed when I behave hypocritically* but I guess I've just watched too many Disney movies where the protagonist overcomes their pretensions and learns humility. * Isn't the US the great bastion of the free market, rugged capitalism, entrepreneurial spirit etc etc etc? I mean at least that's what I see all the people on here claiming vis-a-vis why SV is better than everyone else.
  - phh 3y ago
    > * Isn't the US the great bastion of the free market, rugged capitalism, entrepreneurial spirit etc etc etc? I mean at least that's what I see all the people on here claiming vis-a-vis why SV is better than everyone else. I'm fairly new to US point of view (as in, I witness it only since like 10 years ago), but I feel like this has evolved, and the actual theories of "free market" (which include not having roadblocks, promoting SMBs because of diminishing returns , the need to inform the consumers, the integration of externalities in the taxes) are getting more and more support in the US, especially in SV. I think this has been severely pushed by US' Healthcare sector, where there is no obvious blatant anti competitive behaviors, but have profound negative impact on US society. I think conglomerates killing small useful services by providing the same for free (but bad and without any further innovation) have also had impact there. I'm sure most people on HN has a service in their mind that used to be great, that got killed by Google doing the same for free, but that got enshittified and they are sad the original service is dead.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    The US GOV aren't idiots, either. A car is in fact a good example here - specifically, an ICE car. It's a contraption powered by repeatedly pouring explodium into a chamber and making it go off, then using the boom to both spin wheels and pull in more explodium for another run. More explodium means more power means faster car means better, right? On the contrary, an ICE needs just right amount of explodium, and is designed to ensure that; pour more, it'll stop and/or set itself on fire. Same is with the market. Let it run completely free, and it'll collapse into bunch of tribes led by warlords, producing little more than suffering and death at scale.
    - mathisfun123 3y ago
      > tribes led by warlords, producing little more than suffering and death at scale ...this is literally already the case, except they're our warlords instead of chinese warlords: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_haemophilia_blood_products https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_haemophilia_blood... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_%26_Williamson#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_%26_Williamson#Controver... just so there's no mistaking it: these are american companies > Let it run completely free, and it'll collapse why doesn't it collapse?
      - TeMPOraL 3y ago
        >> Let it run completely free, and it'll collapse > why doesn't it collapse? Because the government aren't idiots and aren't letting it run completely free.
        mathisfun123 3y ago
        > aren't letting it run completely free but they are? that's what the links demonstrate (you do have read them to get that point though).
- varelse 3y ago
  [dead]
Amezarak 3y ago
Protectionism seems to have worked really well for China, and it helped America get to where it was 60 years ago. Meanwhile, relatively recent free trade treaties hollowed the American economy out and contributed to its financialization. I'd like to go back, please.
- Blackthorn 3y ago
  If the state of China right now is considered winning, I'll keep losing.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    Then you would be a loser in every way. The state of China today is far from perfect, but they got from nothing to where they are, industrializing within living memory. I think even people with strongest negative sentiments towards China recognize this as impressive achievement.
- psd1 3y ago
  South Korea is notable for using protectionism for a phase, to allow domestic industry to reach a size where it can survive without protection
- forinti 3y ago
  America kicked away its own ladder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ha-Joon_Chang#Kicking_Away_the_Ladder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ha-Joon_Chang#Kicking_Away_the... I think Reagan and Thatcher started to believe the stories the central economies told the peripheral economies.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Well yeah. I don't know why you say "blatant" though, its not something to be ashamed of nor does any country make an attempt to hide it. As the article says, Europe has tarrifs on car imports too, as do most other nations.

mathisfun123 3y ago
> its not something to be ashamed of It's not? I mean I'm certainly ashamed when I behave hypocritically* but I guess I've just watched too many Disney movies where the protagonist overcomes their pretensions and learns humility. * Isn't the US the great bastion of the free market, rugged capitalism, entrepreneurial spirit etc etc etc? I mean at least that's what I see all the people on here claiming vis-a-vis why SV is better than everyone else.
- phh 3y ago
  > * Isn't the US the great bastion of the free market, rugged capitalism, entrepreneurial spirit etc etc etc? I mean at least that's what I see all the people on here claiming vis-a-vis why SV is better than everyone else. I'm fairly new to US point of view (as in, I witness it only since like 10 years ago), but I feel like this has evolved, and the actual theories of "free market" (which include not having roadblocks, promoting SMBs because of diminishing returns , the need to inform the consumers, the integration of externalities in the taxes) are getting more and more support in the US, especially in SV. I think this has been severely pushed by US' Healthcare sector, where there is no obvious blatant anti competitive behaviors, but have profound negative impact on US society. I think conglomerates killing small useful services by providing the same for free (but bad and without any further innovation) have also had impact there. I'm sure most people on HN has a service in their mind that used to be great, that got killed by Google doing the same for free, but that got enshittified and they are sad the original service is dead.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  The US GOV aren't idiots, either. A car is in fact a good example here - specifically, an ICE car. It's a contraption powered by repeatedly pouring explodium into a chamber and making it go off, then using the boom to both spin wheels and pull in more explodium for another run. More explodium means more power means faster car means better, right? On the contrary, an ICE needs just right amount of explodium, and is designed to ensure that; pour more, it'll stop and/or set itself on fire. Same is with the market. Let it run completely free, and it'll collapse into bunch of tribes led by warlords, producing little more than suffering and death at scale.
  - mathisfun123 3y ago
    > tribes led by warlords, producing little more than suffering and death at scale ...this is literally already the case, except they're our warlords instead of chinese warlords: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_haemophilia_blood_products https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_haemophilia_blood... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_%26_Williamson#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_%26_Williamson#Controver... just so there's no mistaking it: these are american companies > Let it run completely free, and it'll collapse why doesn't it collapse?
    - TeMPOraL 3y ago
      >> Let it run completely free, and it'll collapse > why doesn't it collapse? Because the government aren't idiots and aren't letting it run completely free.
      - mathisfun123 3y ago
        > aren't letting it run completely free but they are? that's what the links demonstrate (you do have read them to get that point though).
varelse 3y ago
[dead]

Amezarak 3y ago

Protectionism seems to have worked really well for China, and it helped America get to where it was 60 years ago. Meanwhile, relatively recent free trade treaties hollowed the American economy out and contributed to its financialization. I'd like to go back, please.

Blackthorn 3y ago
If the state of China right now is considered winning, I'll keep losing.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  Then you would be a loser in every way. The state of China today is far from perfect, but they got from nothing to where they are, industrializing within living memory. I think even people with strongest negative sentiments towards China recognize this as impressive achievement.
psd1 3y ago
South Korea is notable for using protectionism for a phase, to allow domestic industry to reach a size where it can survive without protection
forinti 3y ago
America kicked away its own ladder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ha-Joon_Chang#Kicking_Away_the_Ladder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ha-Joon_Chang#Kicking_Away_the... I think Reagan and Thatcher started to believe the stories the central economies told the peripheral economies.