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Does it specify the latter, Christianized Roman Empire, or is it more of a generalized account? And does it retell of the common Roman, or of the Roman elite?

Does it specify the latter, Christianized Roman Empire, or is it more of a generalized account? And does it retell of the common Roman, or of the Roman elite? These tales may be radically different, from what I understand. I expect the Christianized Romans would have had more laborious conventions such as we see with the Catholic Church in the middle ages. But I'm extrapolating.

defrost 3y ago
The Roman Empire is commonly considered to be the four centuries of post-Republican state of ancient Rome (27 BC) until more or less the adoption of Christianity as the state church in 380 AD and the "fall" of the Western Roman Empire during the following 80 years or so. Your "latter Christianized Roman Empire" was the dag end of a rotting corpse .. you might be thinking of the Byzantine Empire (aka Eastern Roman Empire) Republican Rome and to a much much greater degree Empire Rome were not entirely homogenous, the Empire integrating many cultures (such as the Arabian divisions building Roman forts in Britain) .. much as modern USofA does with it's large latin and many other demographic populations. The Roman Family picture would need to be broken down almost as much as the US Family picture - I suspect the single parent rates in the US might vary considerably by ethnicity .. although it's interesting the the article linked above (IIRC) suggests that Christian V. non Christian rates are more or less the same.
- brnaftr361 3y ago
  I wasn't really thinking of any particular era, I have some vague familiarity with the concept of pater familias and famiglia as a "body of slaves". This, I reckon, aligns with the Christian family modal that I'm most familiar with, perhaps with less extreme connotations of ownership depending on who you ask. My presumption is that the later Roman empire, despite its collapse, did inform the later customs of Europe, particularly in religion if only due to incidental diffusion. And by that dint also affected the custom of marriage, divorce and perhaps more importantly the status and autonomy of women, though I've all but forgotten precisely how this all played out. And I may very well be mistaken. I would also posit that it has less to do with religion and more to do with [perceived] female autonomy, value, mobility, economics, and the abatement of the stigma of divorce. The religious aspect having only been the foundational institution of the customs which have been carried (somewhat steadily) forward for nearly 1500 years let's say - a tradition which has suffered a colossal usurpation in society's working memory. I think it's important to note that women with children are not necessarily unbounded as are women without, I think it would be difficult quantify pre- and post-divorce expectation shifts, but I believe it would be an incisive question. But if the expectations aren't grounded in reality the decision weighing process would lead to poorer outcomes.
  - defrost 3y ago
    > My presumption is that the later Roman empire, despite its collapse, did inform the later customs of Europe, particularly in religion if only due to incidental diffusion. And by that dint also affected the custom of marriage, divorce and perhaps more importantly the status and autonomy of women, Why later? Roman Law was the foundation of modern Western Law and it dates back to Republican Rome with a lot of fleshing out during peak classic Empire Rome. Both Greek (pre Rome) and Roman attitudes toward women have persisted to this day; in Greek stories Telemachus tells Penelope to shut up, and Philomena has her tongue ripped out by Tereus so she cannot speak of her rape .. these are the templates for the active, loaded silencing of women today in public life. On that theme you might enjoy Mary Beard's Women in Power lecture (part of a series). [ Dame Winifred Mary Beard, DBE, FSA, FBA, FRSL, English scholar of Ancient Rome ] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Beard_(classicist) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Beard_(classicist) [ text ] https://archive.md/mAoSZ https://archive.md/mAoSZ [ video ] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGDJIlUCjA0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGDJIlUCjA0

defrost 3y ago

The Roman Empire is commonly considered to be the four centuries of post-Republican state of ancient Rome (27 BC) until more or less the adoption of Christianity as the state church in 380 AD and the "fall" of the Western Roman Empire during the following 80 years or so. Your "latter Christianized Roman Empire" was the dag end of a rotting corpse .. you might be thinking of the Byzantine Empire (aka Eastern Roman Empire) Republican Rome and to a much much greater degree Empire Rome were not entirely homogenous, the Empire integrating many cultures (such as the Arabian divisions building Roman forts in Britain) .. much as modern USofA does with it's large latin and many other demographic populations. The Roman Family picture would need to be broken down almost as much as the US Family picture - I suspect the single parent rates in the US might vary considerably by ethnicity .. although it's interesting the the article linked above (IIRC) suggests that Christian V. non Christian rates are more or less the same.

brnaftr361 3y ago
I wasn't really thinking of any particular era, I have some vague familiarity with the concept of pater familias and famiglia as a "body of slaves". This, I reckon, aligns with the Christian family modal that I'm most familiar with, perhaps with less extreme connotations of ownership depending on who you ask. My presumption is that the later Roman empire, despite its collapse, did inform the later customs of Europe, particularly in religion if only due to incidental diffusion. And by that dint also affected the custom of marriage, divorce and perhaps more importantly the status and autonomy of women, though I've all but forgotten precisely how this all played out. And I may very well be mistaken. I would also posit that it has less to do with religion and more to do with [perceived] female autonomy, value, mobility, economics, and the abatement of the stigma of divorce. The religious aspect having only been the foundational institution of the customs which have been carried (somewhat steadily) forward for nearly 1500 years let's say - a tradition which has suffered a colossal usurpation in society's working memory. I think it's important to note that women with children are not necessarily unbounded as are women without, I think it would be difficult quantify pre- and post-divorce expectation shifts, but I believe it would be an incisive question. But if the expectations aren't grounded in reality the decision weighing process would lead to poorer outcomes.
- defrost 3y ago
  > My presumption is that the later Roman empire, despite its collapse, did inform the later customs of Europe, particularly in religion if only due to incidental diffusion. And by that dint also affected the custom of marriage, divorce and perhaps more importantly the status and autonomy of women, Why later? Roman Law was the foundation of modern Western Law and it dates back to Republican Rome with a lot of fleshing out during peak classic Empire Rome. Both Greek (pre Rome) and Roman attitudes toward women have persisted to this day; in Greek stories Telemachus tells Penelope to shut up, and Philomena has her tongue ripped out by Tereus so she cannot speak of her rape .. these are the templates for the active, loaded silencing of women today in public life. On that theme you might enjoy Mary Beard's Women in Power lecture (part of a series). [ Dame Winifred Mary Beard, DBE, FSA, FBA, FRSL, English scholar of Ancient Rome ] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Beard_(classicist) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Beard_(classicist) [ text ] https://archive.md/mAoSZ https://archive.md/mAoSZ [ video ] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGDJIlUCjA0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGDJIlUCjA0