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Pardon my lang, but it’s about #%!#ing time. Profits over people have given us a lot as a society and I say that as a beneficiary of it as someone living in th

Pardon my lang, but it’s about #%!#ing time. Profits over people have given us a lot as a society and I say that as a beneficiary of it as someone living in the states. I think it need to evolve to sustainable profit along with people, community and planet. We can’t and should not get rid of profit. But we need to preserve it by evolving. Tipping wages keep things artificially low and sustain a system in which a certain class of people are perpetually exploited. I for one, as a resident of US can’t wait for it this to go away.

deaddodo 3y ago
The largest proponents of tipping have always been the service staff themselves (followed closely by restaurants). The service staff like it because they generally take home far more than minimum wage (something they're still guaranteed, btw, they only get the subminimum when tips exceed minimum wage), and the restaurant likes it because they can increase their margins since consumers pay their staff. The people who generally hate this the most are consumers because they're the ones getting the short end of the stick. Don't get me wrong, I hate the ridiculousness of tipping in the US and how 20-25% has somehow become the norm over 10-15% a few decades ago. But I hate it as the fucked over consumer, not over some misguided notion of worker exploitation. And honestly don't even understand how people have bought into this weird, obviously incorrect, talking point.
bane 3y ago
We travel internationally a few times per year and have come very soundly down that the American tipping culture is more or less a cancer in our culture. It sort of hides the true cost of service, and doesn't really motivate service workers (after all you can tip in no-tipping countries if you want) but now three things have happened: 1) Tipping is regularly hitting north of 20% -- even for self-service or fast-food type venues. When 1/4-1/5 of your bill isn't figured into the food price, people take mental notice and restaurant patronage is significantly down. Payment processors at POS are also somewhat responsible for this trend, as much of the Tip request process happened by the store, who usually put it as a blank line on a paper bill, but now it's offloaded to the processor's systems and all kinds of nonsense shows up on the Tipping screens. 2) Due to recent rapid inflation, services are trying to "fake it" to keep prices down, but adding in other fees before the tip, which makes consumer costs go up anyways. It's becoming a significant legal problem in many areas when an additional 10-15% "fee" shows up on the bill. 3) Even with tips, workers can't make ends meet as housing and other basic living costs have gone through the roof. There's a nationally recognized worker shortage, and it's because even taking extra shifts and providing exceptional service isn't bringing in enough TIPs to make ends meet, so workers are leaving or switching to other industries. Which makes the service worse when you do eat out. This means consumers can't figure out how much it costs to eat out anymore. That $10 sandwich and drink combo from 2020 is now $16 + tax + fee + tip = >$20 and now you're getting the same thing for more than twice the price, all a change in the last 2-3 years. So fewer people are eating out. The food industry is tipping over into a death spiral and it's become time to properly professionalize the service industry and return Tips to a "not expected but welcome" option.
- deaddodo 3y ago
  > 3) Even with tips, workers can't make ends meet as housing and other basic living costs have gone through the roof. There's a nationally recognized worker shortage, and it's because even taking extra shifts and providing exceptional service isn't bringing in enough TIPs to make ends meet, so workers are leaving or switching to other industries. Which makes the service worse when you do eat out. Service staff are already guaranteed minimum wage. If there tips don't exceed the difference, the restaurant has to make it up. Do you have service staff friends/family? I recommend going and talking to a few of them and ask if they were to make a minimum wage (again...something they already do, but for sake of conversation, let's take your position) at the expense of optional tipping, if would they prefer that. I can just about guarantee you 100% of them will say no. > That $10 sandwich and drink combo from 2020 is now $16 + tax + fee + tip = >$20 and now you're getting the same thing for more than twice the price This is the real reason people hate tipping. It's the consumers, not the staff that hate it. Which, I agree with, btw; I just don't need to convince myself that I'm "helping the little guy" to take that position. I just hate subsidizing a restaurant's payroll and having to play some social dance of giving someone 15% "gratuity", even if their service sucks ass.
  - bane 3y ago
    Personally, I don't think pay of minimum wage w/o tips will work. The service industry is already starved for employees and that's in a tip-paying world. The market will eventually speak (or regulation will) and restaurants will simply have to pay more to be competitive. Where are workers going and why is there a difficulty in finding people? Tbh, just about anywhere. The local gas station is far less demanding of a job, has flexible hours, and pays a guaranteed wage [1] that's about the same as what they'd make waiting tables [2]. > Do you have service staff friends/family? Of course! I could tell you stories all day about how the front and back end of the restaurant business functions. Key takeaway, it's not fun for just about anybody, but the jobs and workforce are highly fungible. Working in the restaurant business is almost like being a freelancer, except the hours, working conditions, and pay sucks. At the end of the day the problem is not that restaurants don't want to pay their staff, it's that they don't want to look expensive in a crowded market. Once the market has to shift (either by market or legislation) the entire market will move at once. 1 - https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Sheetz-Team-Member-Salaries-E4015_D_KO7,18.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Sheetz-Team-Member-Salaries... 2 - https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/waiter-and-waitress/salary https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/waiter-and-waitre...

deaddodo 3y ago

The largest proponents of tipping have always been the service staff themselves (followed closely by restaurants). The service staff like it because they generally take home far more than minimum wage (something they're still guaranteed, btw, they only get the subminimum when tips exceed minimum wage), and the restaurant likes it because they can increase their margins since consumers pay their staff. The people who generally hate this the most are consumers because they're the ones getting the short end of the stick. Don't get me wrong, I hate the ridiculousness of tipping in the US and how 20-25% has somehow become the norm over 10-15% a few decades ago. But I hate it as the fucked over consumer, not over some misguided notion of worker exploitation. And honestly don't even understand how people have bought into this weird, obviously incorrect, talking point.

bane 3y ago

We travel internationally a few times per year and have come very soundly down that the American tipping culture is more or less a cancer in our culture. It sort of hides the true cost of service, and doesn't really motivate service workers (after all you can tip in no-tipping countries if you want) but now three things have happened: 1) Tipping is regularly hitting north of 20% -- even for self-service or fast-food type venues. When 1/4-1/5 of your bill isn't figured into the food price, people take mental notice and restaurant patronage is significantly down. Payment processors at POS are also somewhat responsible for this trend, as much of the Tip request process happened by the store, who usually put it as a blank line on a paper bill, but now it's offloaded to the processor's systems and all kinds of nonsense shows up on the Tipping screens. 2) Due to recent rapid inflation, services are trying to "fake it" to keep prices down, but adding in other fees before the tip, which makes consumer costs go up anyways. It's becoming a significant legal problem in many areas when an additional 10-15% "fee" shows up on the bill. 3) Even with tips, workers can't make ends meet as housing and other basic living costs have gone through the roof. There's a nationally recognized worker shortage, and it's because even taking extra shifts and providing exceptional service isn't bringing in enough TIPs to make ends meet, so workers are leaving or switching to other industries. Which makes the service worse when you do eat out. This means consumers can't figure out how much it costs to eat out anymore. That $10 sandwich and drink combo from 2020 is now $16 + tax + fee + tip = >$20 and now you're getting the same thing for more than twice the price, all a change in the last 2-3 years. So fewer people are eating out. The food industry is tipping over into a death spiral and it's become time to properly professionalize the service industry and return Tips to a "not expected but welcome" option.

deaddodo 3y ago
> 3) Even with tips, workers can't make ends meet as housing and other basic living costs have gone through the roof. There's a nationally recognized worker shortage, and it's because even taking extra shifts and providing exceptional service isn't bringing in enough TIPs to make ends meet, so workers are leaving or switching to other industries. Which makes the service worse when you do eat out. Service staff are already guaranteed minimum wage. If there tips don't exceed the difference, the restaurant has to make it up. Do you have service staff friends/family? I recommend going and talking to a few of them and ask if they were to make a minimum wage (again...something they already do, but for sake of conversation, let's take your position) at the expense of optional tipping, if would they prefer that. I can just about guarantee you 100% of them will say no. > That $10 sandwich and drink combo from 2020 is now $16 + tax + fee + tip = >$20 and now you're getting the same thing for more than twice the price This is the real reason people hate tipping. It's the consumers, not the staff that hate it. Which, I agree with, btw; I just don't need to convince myself that I'm "helping the little guy" to take that position. I just hate subsidizing a restaurant's payroll and having to play some social dance of giving someone 15% "gratuity", even if their service sucks ass.
- bane 3y ago
  Personally, I don't think pay of minimum wage w/o tips will work. The service industry is already starved for employees and that's in a tip-paying world. The market will eventually speak (or regulation will) and restaurants will simply have to pay more to be competitive. Where are workers going and why is there a difficulty in finding people? Tbh, just about anywhere. The local gas station is far less demanding of a job, has flexible hours, and pays a guaranteed wage [1] that's about the same as what they'd make waiting tables [2]. > Do you have service staff friends/family? Of course! I could tell you stories all day about how the front and back end of the restaurant business functions. Key takeaway, it's not fun for just about anybody, but the jobs and workforce are highly fungible. Working in the restaurant business is almost like being a freelancer, except the hours, working conditions, and pay sucks. At the end of the day the problem is not that restaurants don't want to pay their staff, it's that they don't want to look expensive in a crowded market. Once the market has to shift (either by market or legislation) the entire market will move at once. 1 - https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Sheetz-Team-Member-Salaries-E4015_D_KO7,18.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Sheetz-Team-Member-Salaries... 2 - https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/waiter-and-waitress/salary https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/waiter-and-waitre...