5 ms·

Tipping is such a bad idea in general. America please keep it to yourself

by nixass 3y ago

DiabloD3 3y ago
What a flippant attitude. Most Americans think tipping is undermining regulation and authority of the government to regulate, and should be a banned practice, but the rich keep fighting the majority on the issue. We don't want a tipping culture, this was done to us.
- Ericson2314 3y ago
  I think for many years people were also worried that abolishing tips means a one time negative shock to restaurant staff wages. Thankfully, now that we have tight labor markets and blue collar workers feel like they have actual bargaining power and are not just begging for alms from power-tripping small business owners, attitudes are changing.
  - DiabloD3 3y ago
    People always had actual bargaining power. Why do you think the Far Right, wayyyyyyy back when we were kids (or before you were born, depending on what gen you're in) ran a specific actor, who was previously known for trying to run the Screen Actors Guild into the ground while still being an actor and part of it? They were afraid that the average man might get some ideas, so they got Reagan elected to fix that. This war on America started a long time ago because they're afraid of, apparently, paying people a living wage even though its the law, and has been so since 1933 when FDR signed it in. They still fight it like the law doesn't apply to them, somehow, magically.
    - Ericson2314 3y ago
      I don't think people always had it, because I don't think money is neutral. It's unforgettable to admit, but a teeny tiny row in a database somewhere has a huge effect on people's wellbeing. When the government is doing (relative) austerity during a downtown, and household balance sheets get weaker, it's not mass psychosis, people really are squeezed and employers have more power, real power.
- krapp 3y ago
  What? Most Americans despise the authority of the government and regulation. They object to tipping simply because they don't believe the people they tip deserve the money.
  - DiabloD3 3y ago
    Hardly. The people you refer to are questionably American at all, the only thing keeping them here is their citizenship. The people you speak of also go around saying Trump was elected for a second term and Biden stole the election, hasn't violated the 14th Amendment, is subject of a witch hunt, and the people sent to murder Congress and the Vice President are heroes and not literal terrorists. At some point you just have to accept they're the new Confederacy and they're here to undo 100 years of progress. Good news, though, they're, at the very most, a quarter of the US population, and I believe that to be a significant overestimation. Enough to cause havoc and destruction in every city in America if someone blew a dog whistle hard enough, but not enough to win. They'd get their chapter in the history books as a participation trophy, nothing more.
- rightbyte 3y ago
  > but the rich keep fighting the majority on the issue. Oh come on. The fiercest proponents of tipping I have met are service workers that get tips. Tips are like a slot machine gambling problem for them.
  - DiabloD3 3y ago
    Most service workers I've met have hated it, as a lot of customers think they can Karen their way out of paying for good service, and then get away with it. The ones you speak of that have that problem need to get help, and the system should be structured in a way that prevents whats effectively Stockholm syndrome with extra steps.
    - rightbyte 3y ago
      > can Karen This meme is getting old. The Karen is the victim in most of these Karen stories. And the service worker is getting paid the be a shield between the boss and Karen.
      - defrost 3y ago
        > The Karen is the self declared and largely imagined > victim in most of these Karen stories. It's not much of a "Karen story" if there was any actual wrong done to them.
        rightbyte 3y ago
        I know the Karen is always at fault in the meme, by definition. But in reality, the storyteller could just as well be the asshole.
- dmonitor 3y ago
  Most Americans have never thought about any of those things and like tipping because it’s what they’ve always done.
- medellin 3y ago
  “The rich” is just such a vague and strange argument. I really don’t want to see it becoming a thing on HN. Keep the sensationalism to reddit.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  This isn't true. There is a subset of servers who are vocally opposed, because they are quite happy with how things are now. They'll parrot lines like "if you don't tip well, I have to 'pay' to serve you because the IRS estimates my tip income and taxes me based on that", and neglect to point out that the IRS will not tax you on unearned income, you just have to document what income you did make. I've even pointed this out on HN and had multiple people then try to claim "there's no way to document cash tips to the IRS", but it took me less than 10 seconds to find IRS form 4070 (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-access/f4070_accessible.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-access/f4070_accessible.pdf) which is just a monthly attestation. The reality is that most servers don't want to document their tip income, because in very large part, it is significantly higher than the IRS estimate.
  - datavirtue 3y ago
    A staple of the whole system is tax avoidance. It feels good to have that cash free and clear. For quite some time restaurants have assessed the claim amount based on a percentage of the bills paid by cash taken from the tip average on charged payments. Basically, servers rarely have agency over how much they claim in tips. Only if they score far above average tips can they escape any meaningful taxes. Often they just feel like they are making out better because they didn't get assessed as much as they were tipped. People are not good at math. It's clear to me that tipping needs to go away and the restaurant industry needs to retract to a profitable number of participants. Like trucking and other low margin businesses, there is too much worker abuse because it's the only avenue to profit.
    - FireBeyond 3y ago
      Have you looked at that form? 5 minutes once a month is what it takes to claim your own tips.
- Simulacra 3y ago
  The only people fighting to keep tips are the people who get them. Everyone else hates them.

Tipping is such a bad idea in general. America please keep it to yourself

by nixass 3y ago

Tipping is such a bad idea in general. America please keep it to yourself

What a flippant attitude. Most Americans think tipping is undermining regulation and authority of the government to regulate, and should be a banned practice, but the rich keep fighting the majority on the issue. We don't want a tipping culture, this was done to us.

Ericson2314 3y ago
I think for many years people were also worried that abolishing tips means a one time negative shock to restaurant staff wages. Thankfully, now that we have tight labor markets and blue collar workers feel like they have actual bargaining power and are not just begging for alms from power-tripping small business owners, attitudes are changing.
- DiabloD3 3y ago
  People always had actual bargaining power. Why do you think the Far Right, wayyyyyyy back when we were kids (or before you were born, depending on what gen you're in) ran a specific actor, who was previously known for trying to run the Screen Actors Guild into the ground while still being an actor and part of it? They were afraid that the average man might get some ideas, so they got Reagan elected to fix that. This war on America started a long time ago because they're afraid of, apparently, paying people a living wage even though its the law, and has been so since 1933 when FDR signed it in. They still fight it like the law doesn't apply to them, somehow, magically.
  - Ericson2314 3y ago
    I don't think people always had it, because I don't think money is neutral. It's unforgettable to admit, but a teeny tiny row in a database somewhere has a huge effect on people's wellbeing. When the government is doing (relative) austerity during a downtown, and household balance sheets get weaker, it's not mass psychosis, people really are squeezed and employers have more power, real power.
krapp 3y ago
What? Most Americans despise the authority of the government and regulation. They object to tipping simply because they don't believe the people they tip deserve the money.
- DiabloD3 3y ago
  Hardly. The people you refer to are questionably American at all, the only thing keeping them here is their citizenship. The people you speak of also go around saying Trump was elected for a second term and Biden stole the election, hasn't violated the 14th Amendment, is subject of a witch hunt, and the people sent to murder Congress and the Vice President are heroes and not literal terrorists. At some point you just have to accept they're the new Confederacy and they're here to undo 100 years of progress. Good news, though, they're, at the very most, a quarter of the US population, and I believe that to be a significant overestimation. Enough to cause havoc and destruction in every city in America if someone blew a dog whistle hard enough, but not enough to win. They'd get their chapter in the history books as a participation trophy, nothing more.
rightbyte 3y ago
> but the rich keep fighting the majority on the issue. Oh come on. The fiercest proponents of tipping I have met are service workers that get tips. Tips are like a slot machine gambling problem for them.
- DiabloD3 3y ago
  Most service workers I've met have hated it, as a lot of customers think they can Karen their way out of paying for good service, and then get away with it. The ones you speak of that have that problem need to get help, and the system should be structured in a way that prevents whats effectively Stockholm syndrome with extra steps.
  - rightbyte 3y ago
    > can Karen This meme is getting old. The Karen is the victim in most of these Karen stories. And the service worker is getting paid the be a shield between the boss and Karen.
    - defrost 3y ago
      > The Karen is the self declared and largely imagined > victim in most of these Karen stories. It's not much of a "Karen story" if there was any actual wrong done to them.
      - rightbyte 3y ago
        I know the Karen is always at fault in the meme, by definition. But in reality, the storyteller could just as well be the asshole.
dmonitor 3y ago
Most Americans have never thought about any of those things and like tipping because it’s what they’ve always done.
medellin 3y ago
“The rich” is just such a vague and strange argument. I really don’t want to see it becoming a thing on HN. Keep the sensationalism to reddit.
FireBeyond 3y ago
This isn't true. There is a subset of servers who are vocally opposed, because they are quite happy with how things are now. They'll parrot lines like "if you don't tip well, I have to 'pay' to serve you because the IRS estimates my tip income and taxes me based on that", and neglect to point out that the IRS will not tax you on unearned income, you just have to document what income you did make. I've even pointed this out on HN and had multiple people then try to claim "there's no way to document cash tips to the IRS", but it took me less than 10 seconds to find IRS form 4070 (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-access/f4070_accessible.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-access/f4070_accessible.pdf) which is just a monthly attestation. The reality is that most servers don't want to document their tip income, because in very large part, it is significantly higher than the IRS estimate.
- datavirtue 3y ago
  A staple of the whole system is tax avoidance. It feels good to have that cash free and clear. For quite some time restaurants have assessed the claim amount based on a percentage of the bills paid by cash taken from the tip average on charged payments. Basically, servers rarely have agency over how much they claim in tips. Only if they score far above average tips can they escape any meaningful taxes. Often they just feel like they are making out better because they didn't get assessed as much as they were tipped. People are not good at math. It's clear to me that tipping needs to go away and the restaurant industry needs to retract to a profitable number of participants. Like trucking and other low margin businesses, there is too much worker abuse because it's the only avenue to profit.
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    Have you looked at that form? 5 minutes once a month is what it takes to claim your own tips.
Simulacra 3y ago
The only people fighting to keep tips are the people who get them. Everyone else hates them.