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I find it interesting that many people lament crypto about lack of transparency and how we went through this and that and that's why we have these sort of regul

by csomar 3y ago

I find it interesting that many people lament crypto about lack of transparency and how we went through this and that and that's why we have these sort of regulations in the legacy banking system, etc.. etc.. The reality is that, these regulations mostly exist in the US (through credit card protection), and some in the EU. For the rest of the world, if you got your account siphoned, you are mostly on your own. And about transparency: I have a debit card from an EU bank. It's barely usable because every time I need to make a purchase, it has to go through 3DS and 50/50 the transaction gets rejected. On POS in Asia, it's 80/20. So quite frustrating. Anyway, two months ago, I get a 60-70 EUR transaction on it from some merchant. Not sure how the scammer got the numbers (some shady POS in Thailand?) but the operation was via "an online interface" and there was no confirmation. More bizarre: No one can tell me who exactly debited my card. Not even the bank itself has any idea who the merchant or his identity is. There you have it, a fully dysfunctional system and yet somehow it has become solid because a "less" secure one has lost some people some money.

maccard 3y ago
> I have a debit card from an EU bank. It's barely usable because every time I need to make a purchase, it has to go through 3DS and 50/50 the transaction gets rejected I have 2 debit cards and two credit cards from UK banks, and my partner has the same. I genuinely don't think I've ever had 3DS reject a transaction for either of us. > a fully dysfunctional system and yet somehow it has become solid because a "less" secure one has lost some people some money. No, it's solid because of legislation. Improving the technical details doesn't help the situation, as most of the issues are legislative.
- josu 3y ago
  >I have 2 debit cards and two credit cards from UK banks, and my partner has the same. I genuinely don't think I've ever had 3DS reject a transaction for either of us. I get a 50/50 rate with local businesses in Mexico when paying online with European cards. I don't even bother with foreign cards for local government portals, the success rate is close to 0% when paying online. Also, many payments have to be authenticated with a SMS, which is sent to my European number. Thankfully some banks allow to add a US Google Voice number. I'm talking about normal banks, fintech banks, such as Revolut, are actually pretty good. But I still can't pay the water bill with it.
  - maccard 3y ago
    Reading between the lines a little bit here, it sounds like you're a digital nomad of sorts, with an EU bank account, and are attempting to pay "household bills" in a foreign country using details that don't quite add up. If so, surely you can see that you are likely to be an absolute outlier and how your behaviour is likely almost indecipherable from actual fraud, unless you tell your bank your not actually living in the country (at which point presumably they close your account which is why you're doing this in the first place). > I'm talking about normal banks, fintech banks, such as Revolut, are actually pretty good. My bank accounts are NatWest and starling and CC's are Amex and NatWest - pretty traditional.
majormajor 3y ago
I think a society has to have a certain level of overall, widely-distributed, wealth for people to be willing to pay for the general protections from those sorts of regulations. The money to reimburse consumers doesn't come out of the air, it's a sort of ambient tax on people/the system in general that people are willing to pay since it's not that relatively large compared to the mean income/spending of people using the credit card system.
siva7 3y ago
It’s highly functional because your account savings are backed by laws and strict regulations. It’s not about the tech.
namaria 3y ago
You have credit from one continent good in another continent, there was some minor fraud and you make an argument that this somehow equates this intercontinental banking system with online ledger of tokens where the money markets for these tokens are routinely involved in billion dollar fraud criminal cases? No, these things are not the same.
p3rls 3y ago
It's the same if you're not an elite anywhere. I once had an ex-girlfriend use my debit card to buy $18,000 worth of stuff over a few weeks on Amazon before I noticed. Amazon said there was nothing they could do because I had purchased products to send to her address before (true). Police said they couldn't do anything because there was no proof(false they were too lazy to do anything). Bank said they couldn't do anything because I should have changed my bank account information. I had to beg the judge and prosecutor to even press charges but she never showed up and the warrant for her arrest (for not showing up 3x) got thrown out within days of being filed. Looked into getting a civil suit going and was quoted around the same amount of money as was stolen. I guess New Jersey must be "the rest of world".

by csomar 3y ago

maccard 3y ago

> I have a debit card from an EU bank. It's barely usable because every time I need to make a purchase, it has to go through 3DS and 50/50 the transaction gets rejected I have 2 debit cards and two credit cards from UK banks, and my partner has the same. I genuinely don't think I've ever had 3DS reject a transaction for either of us. > a fully dysfunctional system and yet somehow it has become solid because a "less" secure one has lost some people some money. No, it's solid because of legislation. Improving the technical details doesn't help the situation, as most of the issues are legislative.

josu 3y ago
>I have 2 debit cards and two credit cards from UK banks, and my partner has the same. I genuinely don't think I've ever had 3DS reject a transaction for either of us. I get a 50/50 rate with local businesses in Mexico when paying online with European cards. I don't even bother with foreign cards for local government portals, the success rate is close to 0% when paying online. Also, many payments have to be authenticated with a SMS, which is sent to my European number. Thankfully some banks allow to add a US Google Voice number. I'm talking about normal banks, fintech banks, such as Revolut, are actually pretty good. But I still can't pay the water bill with it.
- maccard 3y ago
  Reading between the lines a little bit here, it sounds like you're a digital nomad of sorts, with an EU bank account, and are attempting to pay "household bills" in a foreign country using details that don't quite add up. If so, surely you can see that you are likely to be an absolute outlier and how your behaviour is likely almost indecipherable from actual fraud, unless you tell your bank your not actually living in the country (at which point presumably they close your account which is why you're doing this in the first place). > I'm talking about normal banks, fintech banks, such as Revolut, are actually pretty good. My bank accounts are NatWest and starling and CC's are Amex and NatWest - pretty traditional.

majormajor 3y ago

I think a society has to have a certain level of overall, widely-distributed, wealth for people to be willing to pay for the general protections from those sorts of regulations. The money to reimburse consumers doesn't come out of the air, it's a sort of ambient tax on people/the system in general that people are willing to pay since it's not that relatively large compared to the mean income/spending of people using the credit card system.

siva7 3y ago

It’s highly functional because your account savings are backed by laws and strict regulations. It’s not about the tech.

namaria 3y ago

You have credit from one continent good in another continent, there was some minor fraud and you make an argument that this somehow equates this intercontinental banking system with online ledger of tokens where the money markets for these tokens are routinely involved in billion dollar fraud criminal cases? No, these things are not the same.

p3rls 3y ago

It's the same if you're not an elite anywhere. I once had an ex-girlfriend use my debit card to buy $18,000 worth of stuff over a few weeks on Amazon before I noticed. Amazon said there was nothing they could do because I had purchased products to send to her address before (true). Police said they couldn't do anything because there was no proof(false they were too lazy to do anything). Bank said they couldn't do anything because I should have changed my bank account information. I had to beg the judge and prosecutor to even press charges but she never showed up and the warrant for her arrest (for not showing up 3x) got thrown out within days of being filed. Looked into getting a civil suit going and was quoted around the same amount of money as was stolen. I guess New Jersey must be "the rest of world".