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Or it shows how insanely hard it is to make a flowchart to deal with actual reality. Here, try this: https://novehiclesinthepark.com/ https://novehiclesinthepar

Or it shows how insanely hard it is to make a flowchart to deal with actual reality. Here, try this: https://novehiclesinthepark.com/ https://novehiclesinthepark.com/ Then imagine a rule set as complicated as “all rules required to ensure safe air travel” being redteamed by a population of a billion people with incentives varying from “personal convenience” to “fly into an occupied skyscraper” to “move ten pounds of cocaine.” Now make that rule set enforceable by tens of thousands of people in a time and cost-effective manner. Deferring a lot of authority to a somewhat sensible person on the ground is the only plausible approach.

kortilla 3y ago
> from “personal convenience” to “fly into an occupied skyscraper” to “move ten pounds of cocaine.” The TSAs job shouldn’t be preventing drug trafficking. What’s next? They check everything with serial numbers to ensure no stolen goods are being carried?
- ethanbond 3y ago
  I don’t think the TSA does try to prevent drug trafficking, but I do suspect that you cannot (and should not be able to) just stuff a suitcase full of cocaine and walk it through the Precheck line. At a certain point that’s a legitimate safety issue.
lostlogin 3y ago
You’ve touched on my issue with it - it’s an American organisation in America. Yet the TSA bullshit is contagious annf other countries have subscribed. It also makes things like passing through the US painful.
- ethanbond 3y ago
  Yeah I guess the sensible thing for every other western nation would’ve been to watch the innovation of “plane hijackers are now both murderous and suicidal” and not make some changes to their security regime. Also, yeah, air travel is a global system. Are you proposing that we just let people fly from other countries with no security infrastructure to the US? And your view is that this somehow makes sense?
  - lostlogin 3y ago
    Do you feel the TSA makes you safer? My issue is mainly that the security crap is applied when there is no connection to the US occurring. If that poor security theatre stayed within US borders it would be more palatable to us outsiders, then we could make adjustments for that and carry on.
    - ethanbond 3y ago
      It’s so goofy when foreigners think the US is forcing other countries to do x y z things, like “have airport security.” Your airports have security because your leaders learned the same things on 9/11 that the US did. The threat landscape changed immensely. Hijackings were not super uncommon, but they were never that dangerous because it’s hard to do much damage without killing yourself too. What 9/11 revealed is that there are actually people who can be convinced to fly themselves into buildings on loaded aircraft, and yes I do think “there will be bomb dogs” and “there will be X-rays” etc are factored into bad actors’ thinking about how to commit bad actions. Or, you know, I suppose you could think that there were only 19 people in the whole wide world who would’ve possibly done what they did and luckily we got rid of them all in one day. Seems wishful to me though, given that we see thematically similar attacks on a weekly basis throughout the Muslim world. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
      - lostlogin 3y ago
        > Your airports have security because your leaders learned the same things on 9/11 that the US did. This isn’t accurate. Where I live, no ID is required for domestic flights and I walk through a metal detector. That’s it. New Zealand. The rules I face going international are to keep other countries happy and my 101ml of water and potential bomb shoes are a bad joke. The attack on the US isn’t something I’ve see replicated in the Middle East weekly that I’ve ever noticed. If TSA rules make you feel safe, I suppose that’s good. Unfortunately they fail at their role 95% if the time. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/investigation-breaches-us-airports-allowed-weapons-through-n3678 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/investigation-breaches-...

kortilla 3y ago

> from “personal convenience” to “fly into an occupied skyscraper” to “move ten pounds of cocaine.” The TSAs job shouldn’t be preventing drug trafficking. What’s next? They check everything with serial numbers to ensure no stolen goods are being carried?

ethanbond 3y ago
I don’t think the TSA does try to prevent drug trafficking, but I do suspect that you cannot (and should not be able to) just stuff a suitcase full of cocaine and walk it through the Precheck line. At a certain point that’s a legitimate safety issue.

lostlogin 3y ago

You’ve touched on my issue with it - it’s an American organisation in America. Yet the TSA bullshit is contagious annf other countries have subscribed. It also makes things like passing through the US painful.

ethanbond 3y ago
Yeah I guess the sensible thing for every other western nation would’ve been to watch the innovation of “plane hijackers are now both murderous and suicidal” and not make some changes to their security regime. Also, yeah, air travel is a global system. Are you proposing that we just let people fly from other countries with no security infrastructure to the US? And your view is that this somehow makes sense?
- lostlogin 3y ago
  Do you feel the TSA makes you safer? My issue is mainly that the security crap is applied when there is no connection to the US occurring. If that poor security theatre stayed within US borders it would be more palatable to us outsiders, then we could make adjustments for that and carry on.
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    It’s so goofy when foreigners think the US is forcing other countries to do x y z things, like “have airport security.” Your airports have security because your leaders learned the same things on 9/11 that the US did. The threat landscape changed immensely. Hijackings were not super uncommon, but they were never that dangerous because it’s hard to do much damage without killing yourself too. What 9/11 revealed is that there are actually people who can be convinced to fly themselves into buildings on loaded aircraft, and yes I do think “there will be bomb dogs” and “there will be X-rays” etc are factored into bad actors’ thinking about how to commit bad actions. Or, you know, I suppose you could think that there were only 19 people in the whole wide world who would’ve possibly done what they did and luckily we got rid of them all in one day. Seems wishful to me though, given that we see thematically similar attacks on a weekly basis throughout the Muslim world. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    - lostlogin 3y ago
      > Your airports have security because your leaders learned the same things on 9/11 that the US did. This isn’t accurate. Where I live, no ID is required for domestic flights and I walk through a metal detector. That’s it. New Zealand. The rules I face going international are to keep other countries happy and my 101ml of water and potential bomb shoes are a bad joke. The attack on the US isn’t something I’ve see replicated in the Middle East weekly that I’ve ever noticed. If TSA rules make you feel safe, I suppose that’s good. Unfortunately they fail at their role 95% if the time. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/investigation-breaches-us-airports-allowed-weapons-through-n3678 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/investigation-breaches-...