4 ms·

A bit of solutionist brain-storming here: It seems to me that the main advantage of plastic food storage containers over glass ones — other than price — comes

by derefr 3y ago

A bit of solutionist brain-storming here: It seems to me that the main advantage of plastic food storage containers over glass ones — other than price — comes mostly from weight. You don't want to carry your leftovers to work in glass containers; they're heavy! (And AFAIK no other container material besides plastic is a good substitute for glass in food storage, because 1. they're not washable / interact chemically too much with the food, or 2. they're not visually transparent enough to tell what's in the container. So let's ignore other materials as possible solutions for now.) I presume that the problem here isn't that microwaves are causing vaporization or spalling of the container material in such a way that microplastic particles coming from the outside of the container can end up in your food. (If that's the case, then plastics are basically entirely screwed for this use-case, and we may as well give up on them entirely.) But presuming instead that the problem is only with your food interacting with the inner surface of the container, under heat/acid/etc — i.e. some kind of leeching or osmosis of the food against the container surface, causing the plasticizers in the container to "exchange" out... Then, if that's the case, would it be possible to make a food storage container that's mostly plastic, but then has "just a little bit" of glass, lining the inner surface? A glass barrier-layer, sort of like how plastics themselves are used as a barrier layer on the inside of aluminum cans? Resulting in something that's a lot lighter-weight than a thick glass container, but a lot more "inert" than a plastic container? Glass is usually brittle, I know; and unlike a glass food-storage container, which is usually thick, plastic food-storage containers are usually more thin and flexible. A plastic substrate would want to bend, and that would, naively, shatter a glass "film" on its surface. But! We've recently invented bendable ("foldable") glass, haven't we? And in fact we're laminating this "foldable" glass to plastic substrates all the time. It's even transparent! I think it's workable as a process. You could, in theory, produce glass-lined plastic food storage containers. I only wonder if it could be made cheap enough that, even at massive scale, these containers would come out at a price-point that anyone would pay.

bell-cot 3y ago
How about using cheap, old-fashioned food-grade silicone, instead of bendable glass?
- mastax 3y ago
  Silicone absorbs odors from foods and detergents. I guess plastics do too, but not as badly usually.
  - undersuit 3y ago
    I accidentally left my silicone spatula at the bottom of the sink too long with some potato skins. It is a potent weapon now.
everdrive 3y ago
>You don't want to carry your leftovers to work in glass containers; they're heavy! I'll never, never understand people. "I don't want to have to carry an additional pound of weight, so I'll trade that for introducing a very small amount of poison into my body." Carrying just a bit more weight doesn't even register as inconvenient.
- derefr 3y ago
  I mean, I don't think anyone who is aware of the microplastics thing is still using plastic containers. The point is that there is a reason (besides cost) that people were preferring plastic containers when they were unaware of the problems with them: they were lighter. An ideal solution — a true replacement for plastic containers — would be something that retains that advantage, while not putting small amounts of poison into your body. > Carrying just a bit more weight doesn't even register as inconvenient. Do you drive/ride transit to work/school? Some people bike, or even walk/jog, with all the things they will need for the day in a bag. Students in school even continue to carry that bag all throughout the day, before, between, and after classes! For a kid who is already carrying a laptop, textbooks and notebooks, etc., having an extra kilo of weight from a glass container can make the difference between just "a heavy backpack", and ending up with bruised shoulders and a kink in their back.
  - scottLobster 3y ago
    As a former college student who carried a backpack stuffed with textbooks and a laptop sometimes for miles around campus, I didn't notice any difference between when my thermos (carried in backpack side pocket) was empty vs when it was full, and that's 20 floz of liquid which is roughly equivalent in weight to the glass containers I use for food prep. When people complain about how soft modern society it, it's this crap that they're talking about. "Oh I already carry around 30 lbs of stuff, 31 will break my back!". If you're carrying around so much that 1 lb will literally make the difference between injured and not injured, you need to seriously re-think your system. Possibly save up for a better backpack, possibly learn how to carry weight and do some exercises to strengthen your back, possibly re-arrange your schedule so you aren't carrying as much weight at one time. And I'm serious about the back strengthening, people (including myself) ruck-march with 20-40 lb packs for exercise, and our backs aren't falling apart. Lifting and carrying weight with good form is great for your back, and strengthens it to the point where you can even use bad form for limited time and avoid injury.
nerdjon 3y ago
I have long wanted to get rid of all my plastic containers (On a fairly regular pace I look for glass alternatives). But for me it always comes down to 2 things: 1. Sizing options, I have yet to find a good 2 partition glass container. They are all either plastic or a glass container with a plastic insert, which defeats the purpose. 2. (And this is the biggest) is storage. Plastic containers just stack up better than glass ones do since they are thinner. In the same space I store plastic containers I may be able to store a third of the number of glass containers. Edit: Oh also storing them frozen. I have broken too many containers because I made a mistake trying to put glass in my freezer. I honestly don't know a solution to the second one but not sure if glass lined would fix it.
- derefr 3y ago
  > 1. Sizing options, I have yet to find a good 2 partition glass container. They are all either plastic or a glass container with a plastic insert, which defeats the purpose. You're not going to find cheap/mass-produced multi-chambered glassware; that's just not how machine glass-blowing works. At scale, glassware is produced basically by just casting a blob of glass into a solid "uninflated" shape, and then inflating that shape in a blow-mold. No additive steps possible, since the rapid expansion of the glass in the blow-mold cools it too much to enable other glass to stick at that point. (And before you suggest making a mold in a "w" shape: the arch in the middle would either have too much internal stress — like a Prince Rupert's drop — or do a nice gradual curve in a way that uses far too much material [= extra weight].) What you might want to try to find is a bento box that's designed to be a collection of independent/modular thinner-walled glass internal compartments, that all slot into a plastic outer racking. This would provide somewhat of the advantages I was describing above, though would certainly be heavier. You could also take the glass containers out of the plastic to microwave them individually. Not sure if I've seen anything like this for sale, but it sounds "obvious", so I'm sure someone's done it. > Edit: Oh also storing them frozen. I have broken too many containers because I made a mistake trying to put glass in my freezer. I think buying borosilicate glass containers would solve this. Borosilicate glass is much more resistant to heat shock.
  - somat 3y ago
mollusk 3y ago
Some cycling water bottles already do that kind of thing: > The Purist WaterGate Bottle features an amorphous silicon dioxide coating that's infused into the inner-wall of the bottle. Essentially, this forms a glass-like finish that provides a totally natural, and completely inert, solution to the problem of your drinks staining the bottle or leaving behind any residual aftertaste. This infusion also shields your fresh water from tasting like plastic on very hot days, making it akin to drinking straight from a sparkling clean glass. It's not perfect in practice though (I find that the bottles can still absorb flavors of sports drinks, especially if you forget to wash them immediately after a ride). But they definitely don't have the plastic taste and smell of other bottles.

by derefr 3y ago

bell-cot 3y ago

How about using cheap, old-fashioned food-grade silicone, instead of bendable glass?

mastax 3y ago
Silicone absorbs odors from foods and detergents. I guess plastics do too, but not as badly usually.
- undersuit 3y ago
  I accidentally left my silicone spatula at the bottom of the sink too long with some potato skins. It is a potent weapon now.

everdrive 3y ago

>You don't want to carry your leftovers to work in glass containers; they're heavy! I'll never, never understand people. "I don't want to have to carry an additional pound of weight, so I'll trade that for introducing a very small amount of poison into my body." Carrying just a bit more weight doesn't even register as inconvenient.

derefr 3y ago
I mean, I don't think anyone who is aware of the microplastics thing is still using plastic containers. The point is that there is a reason (besides cost) that people were preferring plastic containers when they were unaware of the problems with them: they were lighter. An ideal solution — a true replacement for plastic containers — would be something that retains that advantage, while not putting small amounts of poison into your body. > Carrying just a bit more weight doesn't even register as inconvenient. Do you drive/ride transit to work/school? Some people bike, or even walk/jog, with all the things they will need for the day in a bag. Students in school even continue to carry that bag all throughout the day, before, between, and after classes! For a kid who is already carrying a laptop, textbooks and notebooks, etc., having an extra kilo of weight from a glass container can make the difference between just "a heavy backpack", and ending up with bruised shoulders and a kink in their back.
- scottLobster 3y ago
  As a former college student who carried a backpack stuffed with textbooks and a laptop sometimes for miles around campus, I didn't notice any difference between when my thermos (carried in backpack side pocket) was empty vs when it was full, and that's 20 floz of liquid which is roughly equivalent in weight to the glass containers I use for food prep. When people complain about how soft modern society it, it's this crap that they're talking about. "Oh I already carry around 30 lbs of stuff, 31 will break my back!". If you're carrying around so much that 1 lb will literally make the difference between injured and not injured, you need to seriously re-think your system. Possibly save up for a better backpack, possibly learn how to carry weight and do some exercises to strengthen your back, possibly re-arrange your schedule so you aren't carrying as much weight at one time. And I'm serious about the back strengthening, people (including myself) ruck-march with 20-40 lb packs for exercise, and our backs aren't falling apart. Lifting and carrying weight with good form is great for your back, and strengthens it to the point where you can even use bad form for limited time and avoid injury.

nerdjon 3y ago

I have long wanted to get rid of all my plastic containers (On a fairly regular pace I look for glass alternatives). But for me it always comes down to 2 things: 1. Sizing options, I have yet to find a good 2 partition glass container. They are all either plastic or a glass container with a plastic insert, which defeats the purpose. 2. (And this is the biggest) is storage. Plastic containers just stack up better than glass ones do since they are thinner. In the same space I store plastic containers I may be able to store a third of the number of glass containers. Edit: Oh also storing them frozen. I have broken too many containers because I made a mistake trying to put glass in my freezer. I honestly don't know a solution to the second one but not sure if glass lined would fix it.

derefr 3y ago
> 1. Sizing options, I have yet to find a good 2 partition glass container. They are all either plastic or a glass container with a plastic insert, which defeats the purpose. You're not going to find cheap/mass-produced multi-chambered glassware; that's just not how machine glass-blowing works. At scale, glassware is produced basically by just casting a blob of glass into a solid "uninflated" shape, and then inflating that shape in a blow-mold. No additive steps possible, since the rapid expansion of the glass in the blow-mold cools it too much to enable other glass to stick at that point. (And before you suggest making a mold in a "w" shape: the arch in the middle would either have too much internal stress — like a Prince Rupert's drop — or do a nice gradual curve in a way that uses far too much material [= extra weight].) What you might want to try to find is a bento box that's designed to be a collection of independent/modular thinner-walled glass internal compartments, that all slot into a plastic outer racking. This would provide somewhat of the advantages I was describing above, though would certainly be heavier. You could also take the glass containers out of the plastic to microwave them individually. Not sure if I've seen anything like this for sale, but it sounds "obvious", so I'm sure someone's done it. > Edit: Oh also storing them frozen. I have broken too many containers because I made a mistake trying to put glass in my freezer. I think buying borosilicate glass containers would solve this. Borosilicate glass is much more resistant to heat shock.
- somat 3y ago

mollusk 3y ago

Some cycling water bottles already do that kind of thing: > The Purist WaterGate Bottle features an amorphous silicon dioxide coating that's infused into the inner-wall of the bottle. Essentially, this forms a glass-like finish that provides a totally natural, and completely inert, solution to the problem of your drinks staining the bottle or leaving behind any residual aftertaste. This infusion also shields your fresh water from tasting like plastic on very hot days, making it akin to drinking straight from a sparkling clean glass. It's not perfect in practice though (I find that the bottles can still absorb flavors of sports drinks, especially if you forget to wash them immediately after a ride). But they definitely don't have the plastic taste and smell of other bottles.