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I learn from books and for front-end development I learned from O'Reilly's "The Definitive Guide" series. There's a recent edition for both CSS and JavaScript b

I learn from books and for front-end development I learned from O'Reilly's "The Definitive Guide" series. There's a recent edition for both CSS and JavaScript but not for HTML. Just look at the survey, HTML is huge and touches or at least rubs against everything. Whenever I pick up a book to brush up on HTML it always a 98 chapter, 10,000 page tome book called "XYZ & HTML: The Complete Guide For Real". Chapter 1: HTML (pages 1-2). Chapters 2-98: CSS (pages 3-10,000). I'd really like to see an "HTML: The Definitive Guide" that treats HTML as the nexus of web technologies that it is.

dragonwriter 3y ago
> I'd really like to see an "HTML: The Definitive Guide" that treats HTML as the nexus of web technologies that it is. But the thing is just that: HTML sits at the nexus of a bunch of web technologies, but it itself is the simplest of them, especially when you consider that the DOM, which is part of the HTML standard, makes little sense for learning outside of the context of JavaScript, as it is a programming API and JS is the only language woth first-class support that has access to it. There is a reason that books intended as definitive rather than brief tend to include CSS and at least enough JS to contextualize the DOM APIs as well as HTML since about HTML5.
- miiiiiike 3y ago
  I completely disagree with the premise of your comment. For years HTML has been evolving to take features that used to require heavy JavaScript (e.g. dialogs, popovers, as recent examples) and make them available to authors without needing to use any JavaScript. HTML has enough of a complement from CSS/JS that it needs its own book. For example, semantic HTML doesn't make much sense in a JavaScript book. I end up going through the spec over and over again. Would rather have something open next to me on my desk.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > HTML has enough of a complement from CSS/JS that it needs its own book. There are tons of HTML-specific books, but complete/definitive ones will cover the DOM and other aspects of HTML that are only meaningful in the context of CSS and JS, and thus they will cover at least some CSS and JS, too. Not sure why you want a work to be marketed as “definitive” but also be woefully incomplete, but I think that there is a very good chance that the reason that book does not exist is that you would be the entire market for it.
    - miiiiiike 3y ago
      > There are tons of HTML-specific books How many of those HTML books have been published since 2011? Have you read CSS or JavaScript The Definitive Guide? Complete? No. Useful? Yes.
      - egeozcan 3y ago
        One recent example (just a random search result): https://www.routledge.com/HTML-The-Ultimate-Guide/Uzayr/p/book/9781032413259 https://www.routledge.com/HTML-The-Ultimate-Guide/Uzayr/p/bo...
        miiiiiike 3y ago
        404’d. Searching on that site tho, I’m seeing 2012, 2011, and 2014 for the HTML books. That’s my point, almost all of the books on HTML are 10+ years old at this point.
        egeozcan 3y ago
        HTML The Ultimate Guide, By Sufyan bin Uzayr, Published July 28, 2023 by CRC Press ISBN 9781032413259 I also saw a lot of books from 2022.
        miiiiiike 3y ago
        Neat. I'll give it a look. edit I'm not being contrarian for the sake of it, but the book you posted is exactly what I'm talking about when I say that there aren't very many good books on HTML. Just scanning it I'm finding errors (technical, spelling, and grammar) and they didn't even attempt to format the code samples: https://imgur.com/a/pLnbxt0 https://imgur.com/a/pLnbxt0 Look at the TOC. I wouldn't call this an especially focused book. It's a hodgepodge of front-end dev topics. HTML is a tricky topic and it's not addressed well in any recent book I've seen. Watch Kevin Powell's video from yesterday: "Turns out I know less about HTML than I thought! " https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPWlakxKRm8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPWlakxKRm8 — and I guarantee that Kevin knows more than most. How are you finding the additional titles? The search on the link you posted earlier isn't surfacing anything recent or relevant when I search "HTML". Here, instead of search results, do you have an example of a good, recent, HTML book that you've found useful?

dragonwriter 3y ago

> I'd really like to see an "HTML: The Definitive Guide" that treats HTML as the nexus of web technologies that it is. But the thing is just that: HTML sits at the nexus of a bunch of web technologies, but it itself is the simplest of them, especially when you consider that the DOM, which is part of the HTML standard, makes little sense for learning outside of the context of JavaScript, as it is a programming API and JS is the only language woth first-class support that has access to it. There is a reason that books intended as definitive rather than brief tend to include CSS and at least enough JS to contextualize the DOM APIs as well as HTML since about HTML5.

miiiiiike 3y ago
I completely disagree with the premise of your comment. For years HTML has been evolving to take features that used to require heavy JavaScript (e.g. dialogs, popovers, as recent examples) and make them available to authors without needing to use any JavaScript. HTML has enough of a complement from CSS/JS that it needs its own book. For example, semantic HTML doesn't make much sense in a JavaScript book. I end up going through the spec over and over again. Would rather have something open next to me on my desk.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > HTML has enough of a complement from CSS/JS that it needs its own book. There are tons of HTML-specific books, but complete/definitive ones will cover the DOM and other aspects of HTML that are only meaningful in the context of CSS and JS, and thus they will cover at least some CSS and JS, too. Not sure why you want a work to be marketed as “definitive” but also be woefully incomplete, but I think that there is a very good chance that the reason that book does not exist is that you would be the entire market for it.
  - miiiiiike 3y ago
    > There are tons of HTML-specific books How many of those HTML books have been published since 2011? Have you read CSS or JavaScript The Definitive Guide? Complete? No. Useful? Yes.
    - egeozcan 3y ago
      One recent example (just a random search result): https://www.routledge.com/HTML-The-Ultimate-Guide/Uzayr/p/book/9781032413259 https://www.routledge.com/HTML-The-Ultimate-Guide/Uzayr/p/bo...
      - miiiiiike 3y ago
        404’d. Searching on that site tho, I’m seeing 2012, 2011, and 2014 for the HTML books. That’s my point, almost all of the books on HTML are 10+ years old at this point.
        egeozcan 3y ago
        HTML The Ultimate Guide, By Sufyan bin Uzayr, Published July 28, 2023 by CRC Press ISBN 9781032413259 I also saw a lot of books from 2022.
        miiiiiike 3y ago
        Neat. I'll give it a look. edit I'm not being contrarian for the sake of it, but the book you posted is exactly what I'm talking about when I say that there aren't very many good books on HTML. Just scanning it I'm finding errors (technical, spelling, and grammar) and they didn't even attempt to format the code samples: https://imgur.com/a/pLnbxt0 https://imgur.com/a/pLnbxt0 Look at the TOC. I wouldn't call this an especially focused book. It's a hodgepodge of front-end dev topics. HTML is a tricky topic and it's not addressed well in any recent book I've seen. Watch Kevin Powell's video from yesterday: "Turns out I know less about HTML than I thought! " https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPWlakxKRm8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPWlakxKRm8 — and I guarantee that Kevin knows more than most. How are you finding the additional titles? The search on the link you posted earlier isn't surfacing anything recent or relevant when I search "HTML". Here, instead of search results, do you have an example of a good, recent, HTML book that you've found useful?