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I cannot take the survey with my noscript/basic (x)html browsers. Expected? Or I missed the link?

eric-burel 3y ago
Hi, the State of HTML survey is built upon the same code as State of JS, State of CSS, State of GraphQL, and very soon State of React. Those surveys involve highly interactive components for some questions.It's implemented using Next.js and React, which until the advent of App Router less than one year ago would have required a JavaScript hydration step to be interactive. So having it to work without JS enabled is not top-priority. Also there is still a lot of legacy code around (it was previously a MeteorJS app, it has been a long way). However we are really keen on improving and learning new stuffs. All suggestions are welcome on our GitHub repo: https://github.com/Devographics/Monorepo/issues https://github.com/Devographics/Monorepo/issues I would be very interested to know more about your setup, so I can test the app with a similar setup. With Next.js 13 and App Router, it might become easier to server pure HTML. However I've noticed that with streaming enabled (when you have a loading page or use Suspense) you still need a tiny bit of JS (just to remove the "hidden" state of your content) even with RSC, so it's still not that easy.
rs_rs_rs_rs_rs 3y ago
>I cannot take the survey with my noscript/basic (x)html browsers. Good.
- arcanemachiner 3y ago
  How do you figure?
  - decremental 3y ago
    [dead]
SanderNL 3y ago
The “state of HTML” is that it has become a glorified payload wrapper to deliver corporate JS shitware to you as efficiently as possible.
sgdesign 3y ago
I'm one of the developers of the survey app. While I would love to have the app work seamlessly without JavaScript, the reality is that when you build apps with a React/Next.js stack the path of least resistance does usually take you in a direction that requires JS to work. Personally I don't see it as a good or bad thing, it's just one way of building web apps, and it so happens it's the one I know how to do.
- ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago
  It's a bit ironic to host the state of html survey in an environment that absolutely requires JavaScript. It is also a pretty bad thing since progressive enhancement is a key principle of the web.
  - sylware 3y ago
    Yep, I am going to explain exactly that to my administration, with my lawyer.
- SanderNL 3y ago
  Nothing against you, but it’s kind of depressing to me. It’s easy to make this work without JS. It’s telling that this is the state of ‘HTML’. These skills are rusting away and it’s a sad thing.
  - sgdesign 3y ago
    Taking the survey myself definitely showed me my own HTML skills are rusty as a consequence of building JavaScript apps for the last decade. The truth is that building web apps is a large and complex enough field that it's quite hard for a single person to master all of it, and I think we should normalize the fact that any single developer will have their areas of strength and weakness.
    - SanderNL 3y ago
      Agreed. I think the two of us can talk all day about the necessity of it becoming a “large and complex field”. I accept I am an old miser about it, but it is indeed the reality.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Hi, the State of HTML survey is built upon the same code as State of JS, State of CSS, State of GraphQL, and very soon State of React. Those surveys involve highly interactive components for some questions.It's implemented using Next.js and React, which until the advent of App Router less than one year ago would have required a JavaScript hydration step to be interactive. So having it to work without JS enabled is not top-priority. Also there is still a lot of legacy code around (it was previously a MeteorJS app, it has been a long way). However we are really keen on improving and learning new stuffs. All suggestions are welcome on our GitHub repo: https://github.com/Devographics/Monorepo/issues https://github.com/Devographics/Monorepo/issues I would be very interested to know more about your setup, so I can test the app with a similar setup. With Next.js 13 and App Router, it might become easier to server pure HTML. However I've noticed that with streaming enabled (when you have a loading page or use Suspense) you still need a tiny bit of JS (just to remove the "hidden" state of your content) even with RSC, so it's still not that easy.

rs_rs_rs_rs_rs 3y ago

>I cannot take the survey with my noscript/basic (x)html browsers. Good.

arcanemachiner 3y ago
How do you figure?
- decremental 3y ago
  [dead]

SanderNL 3y ago

The “state of HTML” is that it has become a glorified payload wrapper to deliver corporate JS shitware to you as efficiently as possible.

sgdesign 3y ago

I'm one of the developers of the survey app. While I would love to have the app work seamlessly without JavaScript, the reality is that when you build apps with a React/Next.js stack the path of least resistance does usually take you in a direction that requires JS to work. Personally I don't see it as a good or bad thing, it's just one way of building web apps, and it so happens it's the one I know how to do.

ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago
It's a bit ironic to host the state of html survey in an environment that absolutely requires JavaScript. It is also a pretty bad thing since progressive enhancement is a key principle of the web.
- sylware 3y ago
  Yep, I am going to explain exactly that to my administration, with my lawyer.
SanderNL 3y ago
Nothing against you, but it’s kind of depressing to me. It’s easy to make this work without JS. It’s telling that this is the state of ‘HTML’. These skills are rusting away and it’s a sad thing.
- sgdesign 3y ago
  Taking the survey myself definitely showed me my own HTML skills are rusty as a consequence of building JavaScript apps for the last decade. The truth is that building web apps is a large and complex enough field that it's quite hard for a single person to master all of it, and I think we should normalize the fact that any single developer will have their areas of strength and weakness.
  - SanderNL 3y ago
    Agreed. I think the two of us can talk all day about the necessity of it becoming a “large and complex field”. I accept I am an old miser about it, but it is indeed the reality.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]